Not All Your Passengers Understand Trains Or Railroads......

BM765 · **Joined:** Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm **Posts:** 151

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

BM765 wrote:

I had never thought about it before but I wonder if the the “round trip loop” confusion isn’t caused by the way many rides are marketed. For example you have 8 miles of track and call it a 16 mile trip. In every day life we don’t talk that way. If someone asks how far it is to the store I say 4 miles because that’s the distance from my door to the store. I don’t say 8 miles because the 4 mile return is implied. I can see where someone could assume the advertised mileage would all be original, non-repeated track.

Yeah if I didn’t know anything about trains I wouldn’t expect a “4 mile round trip” to go 2 miles in a straight line and then 2 miles back.

Funny. No one seems to have this misunderstanding with airlines..............

I admit to having made some kind of misunderstanding like this back in second grade, after buying my first copy of the Steam Passenger Service Directory..............

Yes, airlines market "round trips" but they do not market the mileage. At least not as a selling point. Many tourist railroads that have 5 miles of track will say "10 mile excursion." Many are going to assume that means 10 non-repeated miles of track. Now if they know the origin and destination are about 5 miles apart it's not that big of a stretch to think it's a circle trip.

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

p51 wrote:

You also encounter a comical amount of wishful thinking. Our 2-8-2 is down for probably another year and almost every weekend someone will show up ticked there's a diesel on the head end, declaring our website says steam is running, and it really doesn't (in fact, the first popup clearly says the steam loco is down for a while).

Have you actually looked at your website? Every photo on there is of the steam train. You have like a 30 second video (very well done) of the steam train on the front page. There's one tiny sentence saying "#15 is down for repairs" and everything else on the page says "Steam train!"

Then you wonder why people show up thinking they'll get to ride a steam train? Really?
"Well, sure, all the photos on the website show T-bone steak, but it says right here in the fine print 'Now serving hamburgers only', how did you miss that?"

Try and find a photo of the diesel train on the website? I did, and while I didn't look at every page, I've found one so far.

Attachment:

chehalis.jpg [ 166.99 KiB | Viewed 2806 times ]

Yep, clearly diesel powered...

Bobharbison · **Joined:** Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm **Posts:** 3010

BM765 wrote:

Yes, airlines market "round trips" but they do not market the mileage. At least not as a selling point. Many tourist railroads that have 5 miles of track will say "10 mile excursion." Many are going to assume that means 10 non-repeated miles of track. Now if they know the origin and destination are about 5 miles apart it's not that big of a stretch to think it's a circle trip.

Yes, I came here to say the same thing...

I've never seen mileage as part of the promo material. Yes, you can usually find it in the onboard magazine, and some folks care since they're mileage collectors of a different sort (only 2,000 more points to a free upgrade!) but nobody is wondering if 800 miles to Denver is one way or round trip.

Even on "flightseeing" trips, which are really the ones that best compare to a tourist train ride, they typically state the duration rather than mileage, since most people don't have a clue how fast the plane flies. So they'll say "Two hour flightseeing trip to the San Juan Islands" without mentioning distance.

JimBoylan · **Posted:** Mon Jun 28, 2021 3:48 pm

ted66 wrote:

I always treat questions seriously; but the person who knows a little is the most dangerous! Like the Father who told his son the air tanks under the Interurban were the gas tanks. Or the person who asked if the Sacramento Northern had any water tanks.

Did any interurban cars have Pintsch gas lighting?
Even after the end of steam dummy service on the Philadelphia & West Chester (Pennsylvania) Traction Co., a track side water tank was retained for filling the street sprinkling car. Did Sacramento Northern also provide that service?

hadder · **Joined:** Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:21 pm **Posts:** 178

Quote:

Not to get off topic but could Grand Canyon not run “local” trains from the Canyon. Just to the siding at Apex and back? Seems like they would make a killing! Of course the operation is already doing pretty good when it comes to bringing in $$$! Ha.

Actually, GCR tried that back in 2008. They ran an evening train that departed Grand Canyon at around 5:30pm for a 90 minute jaunt through the woods to Imbleau Siding. The engine ran around the cars and headed back to the Canyon. The locomotive was typically a GP-7 and the consist 3 Harriman cars. The 12 miles the train traversed run through National Forest and are some of the most scenic on the line.

Xanterra thought this would be an easy, low cost, low risk opportunity. The idea was to capture guests that were already at the Canyon, had been sightseeing all day and wanted something different to do where they could sit and relax. The only advertising they would need is rack cards at the hotels and flyers on the tables in the restaurants.

The train ran for about 90 days during the summer. Many of us were disappointed in ticket sales, as patronage was rarely over 100 seats. But the company charged $35 a head, so the bottom line was decent.

Residents at Grand Canyon complained with the train noise and fouling the crossings during the evening 'Quiet Time'. The National Park Service Reviewed the plan at the end of the season and decided that the train did not add anything to the visitation of Grand Canyon National Park, since the train took people away from the Canyon. They did not renew the permit for 2009.

hadder · **Joined:** Fri Nov 16, 2007 10:21 pm **Posts:** 178

Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

Back to the original post of this thread -

It seems a Grand Canyon Railway information / ticket booth could do a much better job of advertising what they offer than that sign. The sign practically discouraged people from asking questions.

The sign SHOULD be a professionally printed sign that says “ask here for more information about riding the Grand Canyon Railway - operating daily between Williams AZ and the Grand Canyon!”

If your staff is annoyed with guests asking the same questions you have the wrong staff. Your staff should constantly be repeating your organizations mission and / or call to action.

Years ago, Grand Canyon Railway offered one way trips from Grand Canyon to Williams for those visitors to the Park that saw the train and wanted a ride while they were there. Ticket agents at the Canyon Depot could sell one way seats (space available) back to Williams, and there was a bus company that picked up from the depot in the afternoon to take them back to the Canyon. It sounded like a good idea, but there were rarely any takers. Many people came into the depot to inquire about the train, but were only interested in the idea of touring the Canyon, not a 60 mile train ride across the high desert.

Then there was the family that managed to get on the train at the Canyon without tickets, thinking they were on a sight seeing tour. Perhaps they thought the train was complimentary like the shuttle busses. After the train got underway and made a left turn away from the rim, they realized that their expectations were misguided and flagged a coach attendant down to inquire. When told just where the train was headed, they exclaimed 'We don't want to go to Williams'. The crew stopped and let them off at the next crossing. They had an uphill walk of about 2 or 3 miles back to the rim.