The trainshed at 30th St. Upper was still open when the 7002 and 1223 were running on Amtrak.

The closed trainshed roof caused a problem with the FP-7 trip to East Strasburg. The SEPTA Republic RL1000 that was providing HEP to the "Bomber" push-pull cars overheated in the absence of fresh air. The 1950-built FP-7's did just fine.

The enclosure also solved a pigeon problem. Clearances are tight there, although it was designed to fit a K4 under the wire. Before the top was enclosed, I watched as a pigeon landed on the messenger wire (that's the upper wire from which the contact wire is suspended) near an insulator. The pigeon raised its wings, followed by a flash, a loud THOOF! and a big cloud of feathers. I'm not sure if a breaker popped. Yes, the roof is grounded.

Phil Mulligan

I stand by that post. They've gone one better step and Mr. Moorman is now Chair of the ARRMM and Bennett Levin is now a BOD member.

Project couldn't be in better hands and deservedly so after years of terrible mis-management.

Ross Rowland

Wow! That's pretty sad to criticize someone who successfully restored 2 mainline steam engines, ran a nation wide tour pulled by steam, and too many to count mainline trips.

How many rail projects have you completed? How much of your own time and money have you spent on these projects?

Then people wonder why these folks stay away from sites like this. Why they avoid public events.

Ross, I've see and enjoyed the things you and others have done for the industry. Thank you could never, ever be enough!

What Ross has described is demonstrably true and even described by the Museum itself: https://www.railroadcity.org/k4restoration.html

To quote:

https://www.railroadcity.org/mission.html

I would suspect that it's NOT that "611 is ONLY able to run at Strasburg"; it's that no other operation has offered to let her come and run (ditto 765).

Roaming "guest steam/diesel locos" were and still are a "thing" in the UK's heritage railway scene, even with road movement of big locos sometimes mandated.. I have Brits asking me why we don't have more of what they see as a patently obvious solution to earning restoration costs, attracting new/repeat patrons, free publicity, etc.

Imagine if, just as some wild examples, a Grand Canyon steamer ran on the Verde Canyon RR or Royal Gorge line for a month or two. Or one of the Santa Fe steamers (3751, 2926, or 3450) were on the GCRY for a season of weekend runs. Or the Strasburg and Everett traded 11 and 89 for a few months. Or the BM&R used the Reading FP7s or the "CNJ F3s" for some Jim Thorpe trips. The possibilities are endless if you see "what's possible" as opposed to "this is why we can't do this".............

Those F3s were in Jim Thorpe for awhile, actually. Not sure if they ever pulled a train, but I remember going as a kid in about 2006 and seeing them there.

When I worked for the New Hope, I’d hear some management talk about doing this. Never seriously; it was usually a “oh wouldn’t it be a good idea to trade 40 for Strasburg 89 for a little while? Or Have Black River 60 come across the river for a season?” What often halted any of these discussions from becoming anything more than daydreaming was logistics. It’s not impossible to do either of the things I’ve just described. It’s just that in Britain, the logistics of transporting a locomotive to another railroad is a bit simpler (the rails and land they are on aren’t usually privately owned like they are here).

I’m sure it could happen with enough willpower and enthusiasm. 1361 could certainly run for a season at Strasburg not unlike what 611 is doing as we type.

The long-standing… idea? I guess you could call it was that 1361 would “roam PA as a living museum, with a full consist of PRR coaches to boot.” The new management has even continued that mantra. Whether that means installing PTC and running it on the Keystone Corridor or ferrying it from place to place is yet to be elucidated…

I’m sure places like the RBMN will always be open to visitors, though they haven’t had any since 765.

I'll never let the Fefferlyns of the world discourage me not even remotely close. He is a new voice that we will put into the negatoids club and be included in chapter 7 of the book.

He reminds me of the foamer ( with at least 4 cameras hanging from his neck ) who came up to me on the platform at Buffalo when we arrived with the 759 powered Golden Spike Centennial Limited and raised hell with me for having the nerve to paint the tender powder blue & gold because the NKP " never painted their engines like that" !!!".

Bottom line is you can never please everyone,......so don't try.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

I would say that Ross has been most successful in preserving C & O 614. Even when the locomotive has not been in operable condition it has always been in good shape cosmetically and protected. If left at the B & O museum there's a good chance it would be in the same cosmetic condition as 2101 is today, or 1309 prior to leaving the museum. It's definitely in better shape mechanically than it would be if Ross hadn't gotten hold of it and it was still in Baltimore. The argument in "not running beyond a 15 year overhaul" has been re-hashed so many times it's ridiculous. 759 never belonged to Ross and was returned to Steamtown in good condition, 2101 was damaged in a roundhouse fire through no fault of Ross's, and 614 will not be restored without a place to run and a chance to make restoration economically feasible, which makes perfect sense.

John Rembis

Thanks for the current link.

Moorman was certainly instrumental in the NS steam program, and I'd never question his drive to do it, or his respect within the railroad industry. He has the potential to be the ultimate project advocate for what has to be the most painful topic to discuss in rail preservation, responsible for more thread padlocks than possibly any other.

The web page is at least being honest with facts, which is of great comfort to me, having used 1361 as an example of how not to restore a steam locomotive for about 25 years. A lot of well-intended efforts have perished in that firebox.

"The restoration of K4 1361 is a thirty-year undertaking that has seen multiple project managers, with considerable work completed. However, there is still much to be done. The latest boiler studies revealed some the following: (1) Some of the rivets used in the boiler were of the incorrect steel. (2) The repair and subsequent re-repair of the main dome course needed further inspection. (3) Some firebox repairs were completed with improperly-sized materials. FMW Solutions has undertaken ultrasonic testing to further assess the boiler’s integrity. It was determined that the firebox area will require some of the projects most substantial repairs."

From what I personally know, and have personally witnessed, that's at least not dodging the facts. While it's optimistic, it's not unrealistic either.

And while it doesn't come right out and say it, the fundamental design weakness in the 'stock' Belpaire firebox with the stay stresses as it relates to the current safety factors in the Form 4 and CFR is addressed:
"Through modifying material thickness and staybolt size, FMW has engineered a solution that will preserve the original Belpaire boiler and return the locomotive to operation. Much of the firebox will be replaced with new steel—resulting in a safer and sturdier locomotive to last."

That being observed, I certainly wish them well with a little more optimism than I've had for a long time.

Ross, those remarks were uncalled for; these folks never rolled a flue or probably don't know where to find them; I for one hope to meet you soon on the New Hope when I'm on the Philly end.

I can't speak to our cousins, but the 765 isn't lacking places to operate. As a side note, while the 611's size prevents it from going to some of the same venues the 765 may go to, the 1361 will be just as flexible as the 765, if not more so. Its proximity to other friendly venues is also a major selling point. For other big engines, it's 600+ miles to get to what the K4 has within 100. That bodes pretty well.

But more to the point, it ain't for lack of options. It's getting to places that make financial sense, that have passenger equipment, that have a market base, etc, etc, etc. It's every unsexy reason other then "no other operation has offered to come and run." In fact, maybe one or two potential venues had all of the above, but the revenue sharing agreement made it generally a non-starter. After all, it is a business.

We had a very attractive operating plan for October of 2020, with all-day, high-speed excursions planned out of Chicago as a bit of a spiritual successor to the very successful Joliet Rocket trips...but we all know how 2020 wound up. Remember we're still only halfway out of this pandemic, and recovering/catching back up to where things were poised to go in early 2020 will take time.

Just so happens next year is the 50th Anniversary of the Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society. We're already talking to a few entities where the party can be held. In the style of our friends in the UK, I think the future of guest engines staying for a longer durations at worthwhile venues will be the new norm. What used to be brief stopovers will turn into longer pieces of annual programming.

Barnstorming is great and all, but out-and-backs that tie up Class 1s several times a year will be better satisfied by finding new and exciting things for the choo's to do when they get somewhere.

There's an operation associated with giving a green light to innovation that would probably disagree with Mr. Mitchell... :-)

Hi All
I only met Ross Rowland once when he was running the excursions out of Hoboken, New Jersey with the C&O # 614. Ross is a very kind man, and I did most appreciate meeting him, and but getting in the cab of # 614 while in Hoboken, NJ, and getting the blow the whistle while at the station.
Ross did run the trips with NKP # 759, the Freedom train, with Reading # 2101, the C&O trips with the same locomotive. The New River train, before they were taken over by the Fort Wayne group, and NKP # 765.
Here my shot with C&O # 614.

Excuse me for getting back on topic:

As long as the Altoona Railroaders Memorial Museum has the keys to this engine, it's same old, same old; I can tell you stories all the live long day!

They have a lot of nerve asking for more money!!

What did they tell the 5550 Group when asked about the T-1 Tender Trucks?