Pennsy influenced?

DOA with Cecil Major taking over the LV Presidency.

Passenger service dieselized 1948

All steam done Sept 1951.

Where did you find this? Any more information?

Dimensions are very close to the PRR Q2.

I'm not sure what the Valley could do with an engine that big. Q2 was also 16' 5 1/2" high, 107' 7 1/2" wheelbase; needed 110' turntable.

Phil Mulligan

I don't know. I also don't know why they would pursue a duplex with the curves they had. Of course the Pennsy received a recommendation to get N&W A Class 2-6-6-4's, tested them and pursued J-1's and Q-2's.

Interesting. That's a diagram for the Chief Engineer - head of track and structures - giving the axle loads which are also close to a Q2. If it's pre-production it probably IS a Q2 before they had a completed one to weigh.

These numbers are huge meaning he'll send a reply to the RR President showing how much it'll co$t to upgrade ties, rail and bridges to take the weight and what structures need moved or raised to clear the engine, including enlarging tunnels. The number will be impossibly high.

LV bought diesels.

Phil Mulligan

It was probably just part of due diligence before committing to diesels.

In the case of the Lehigh Valley, the "due diligence" was an incoming President's strong distaste for steam. I don't have the source anymore, but I read that he was reported to have said he wouldn't rest until he put out the last fire-and he was remarkably quick about it. The last steam ran September 1951 and there was a picture of less than ten year old Wyomings (4-8-4's) at Sayre in a deadline.

I used to think I'd find all kinds of engineering, mechanical and financial studies about steam and diesel. The only thing I've ever seen is the NYC report on Niagaras vs EMDs.

I don't think it was necessary. I think for seasoned and unbiased executives, the advantages of diesel electrics, both mechanically and financially were obvious.

To paraphrase Peter Drucker, a replacement technology is ten percent better, it's ten times better.

During the first three or four years after the end of WWII there were a few railroads in the coal mining districts that wanted to believe that steam still had a future. For them coal was cheap enough and diesels were expensive enough to justify that position. Plus, there was still hope that innovations such as duplex drive, poppet valves or the steam turbine electric would continue to make steam competitive. By 1949 those innovations had failed and the coal miners strike sealed steam's fate. Upper management realized the advantages of MU locomotives and the huge labor cost savings of complete dieselization.

1945 was an interesting time. There were still wartime shortages, and long waits for new equipment.

LV's President untill 1944 was Revelle W. Brown who was a Steam man. He left LV to be President of the Reading. Brown presided over RDG's T-1 program.

As to that enormous proposed LV locomotive, PRR bought 25 Q2's instead of 25 more J1's.

A 1953 MP 229 shows all 25 on the Ft. Wayne Division. A 1955 MP 229 shows only 14, still on the Ft. Wayne Div. By 1956 they were all gone. I don't think they had run in 1953-1955, but were there. There were plenty of I1's and J1's running.

And RDG still had all the T-1's, some of which were leased by the PRR in 1956.

Phil Mulligan