This had been discussed here many times in the past.

The Counties between Scranton and the NJ border really, REALLY want the DL&W Passenger Service to NY restored. They own the railroad, which is operated by GVT as the Delaware-Lackawanna. D-L is famous for restoring moribund Alco diesels to service, but they and the Counties should be more famous for restoring a moribund railroad to service.

The Pennsylvania Northeast Regional Railroad Authority, formed by the Counties, has signed a deal with Amtrak to do a detailed study of the feasibility of restoring the service, which hasn't operated since EL 6, The Lake Cities, arrived from Chicago Dearborn in January, 1970. PNRRA will pay the $400,000 co$t of the study.

In a related matter, Representatives Matt Cartwright, D-8, Moosic, Susan Wild, D-7, Lehigh County, and Reps. Josh Gottheimer and Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey have formed a caucus to restore track on the Lackawanna Cutoff in New Jersey between the Delaware River bridge and Andover, NJ. NJT owns the right of way and is restoring service between Port Morris Jct and Andover.

With an infrastructure bill pending, a President from Scranton (Biden's parents moved to Delaware to find work 70 years ago, a scenario common in the NEPA Anthracite Region) and the PNRRA putting its own money where its mouth is, things look better than ever.

The new Gateway Tunnels to NY and 8 new Station tracks South of Penn Station will create the capacity and the "SWIFT" connection will allow dual-mode powered Scranton trains to run seamlessly from the ex-DL&W to Penn Station.

Phil Mulligan

Make this "The Train PROPOSAL That Wouldn't Die".....................

And Lucy tees up the football again...

My grandfather was born around 100' from this line in Gouldsboro PA, and my great grandfather was a fireman for the DL&W. Getting Amtrak involved solves a lot of problems with intra-state agencies trying to restore service on an interstate line, such as an incentive for the track in NJ to be restored by NJ when most of the passengers on that part of the line would be from PA.

"PRESS RELEASE FROM THE PENNSYLVANIA NORTHEAST REGIONAL RAILROAD AUTHORITY (July 20, 2021) -
The Pennsylvania Northeast Regional Railroad Authority has signed a Joint Planning Agreement with Amtrak related to the proposed operation of intercity Passenger Rail Service between Scranton, PA and New York City.
“This agreement solidifies the growing beneficial relationship between Amtrak and PNRRA and Amtrak’s proposed new intercity passenger rail corridor between Scranton, the Pocono Region, Northern New Jersey and New York City”, said Larry Malski, President of PNRRA.
Amtrak will provide professional services including infrastructure assessment and ridership and revenue forecasting estimates of equipment needs and other analysis of the Amtrak proposed Scranton to New York City Corridor.
“This proposed new Amtrak Corridor will provide the residents of Northeastern Pennsylvania, Northern New Jersey and New York City a brand new transportation option and direct connection between the region and the entire Amtrak System which serves over 500 stations in the United States and Canada,” said Bob Hay, Chairman of the PNRRA.
“This transportation option will provide economic development benefits to the states of Pennsylvania, New Jersey and New York and allow an environmentally favorable transportation alternative to the congestion and delays that are projected to dramatically increase on our local, state and interstate highway infrastructure in the Northeast,” said Malski. He added that for example, a resident of Scranton would be able to get an Amtrak train and travel to Orlando, Florida, Boston, New Orleans or any of the other 500+ destinations on the Amtrak System in the United States and Canada with one ticket.
The analysis will take approximately one year to complete and cost $400,000.00."

If you're under 20 years old you might ( operative word is MIGHT) live long enough to see this become reality.

This has been " studied" to death with millions spent on past study's that only led to more study's on and on and on.

No doubt it would put a dent into the bumper to bumper M-F rush hour traffic on I-80 but at what cost?

Oh well, at least it will clearly hold the national title to the " Most Studied" cup.

Ross Rowland

If they move at the speed the Andover to Pt. Morris restoration has moved at, I predict it will be the year 2500 when we see the first train in Scranton.

Work on Roseville Tunnel by NJ Transit is projected to begin in October, and the counties have used eminent domain to quash the attempts of rich people abutting the cutoff to pull strings in DEQ to stall its rebuilding (e.g. by claiming a culvert was too small to drain the station area in Andover but refusing to replace the culvert). I think things will move rapidly from now on.

Yeah, this is worse than MUNI's Central Subway.

Whatever "need" there was for this project say three years ago, has evaporated.

The idea that Scranton needs to be connected to NY was always a tenuous notion-it was once called "America's fastest dying city". The flagship revival projects of the late 80's and early 90's are all gone.

-Scranton Wilkes Barre Red Barons-team moved to Lehigh Valley and the Rail Riders are the poached former Columbus Clippers.

-Nat West Bank. Gone. at one point replaced by Fleet Bank-who was absorbed Bank of America last I heard, I have no idea if the building on Montage Mountain has another occupant.

PAMCO (and ten other names). Prudential just sold its retirement services-including the Moosic location and my few remaining former co-workers have been told that they may or may not be retained by Empower.

Oh yes and that sheer work of genius, the Scranton Mall, which squandered $90M-largely "public investment" to produce a venture that was stupid ab initio-who wants to battle bottle -necked city traffic, when the Viewmont Mall had much easier access? Sold for 5M at bankruptcy, trouble began when Montgomery Ward went belly-up. Whatever happens, all the historic buildings on Lackawanna Ave whose demolition was broadcast as progress and revival by glib local TV imbeciles are now gone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llGSGtN_h0M


The unforeseen (to some) permanence of lockdown induced telework means an increasing number of people will be taking the 30 foot commute.

Now for a lot of jobs, physical proximity is a necessity-but even some aspects of medicine are now being done through internet video cameras.

Who needs the time and expense of the commute it? And then there's the expense of work attire.


About a year ago former hedge fund manager James-Altucher published a piece “NYC is dead forever. Here’s why.”

Short answer? Mechanical transportation conquers distance, broadband obliterates it.

Of late, youtube personality Louis Rossman has focused less on electronic device repair-and how manufacturers attempt to defeat that ability and on the real estate scene in NY, where he has his shop.

My crystal ball is doggy, but New York City has been declared dead many times. Remember Fort Apache the Bronx days?

Humans are a social species. There's already been reports of declining productivity with home work. The "Great" suburban corporate work campuses were on the decline for the same reason.

Brian

A couple of points om AAA baseball. The SWB Red Barons were the Phillies AAA affiliate and played in the original ballpark at Lackawanna County Stadium up in Moosic. You haven't lived until you've watched a AAA doubleheader (7 inning games) on Moosic Mountain at night in April. I think the ski runs were still open.

Anyway some people in the Phillies MiLB organization bought the Ottawa AAA team to be the new Phillies AAA affiliate. Lehigh County was building a new ballpark in Allentown and they would move the team there. This team became the Lehigh Valley Iron Pigs.

Lackawanna County got the legendary New Youk Yankees to move their AAA affiliation to Scranton. The Red Baron name continued.

Subsequently, the NYY wanted the Stadium rebuilt, and Lackawanna County extended the trolley line to the ballpark and built a new shop on County-owned land next to the Stadium. The rebuilt Stadium became PNC Field and the Red Barons became the Rail Riders.

Rail Riders? Yes, the Trolley Museum offers trolley rides up to selected ball games. Tomorrow, July 25, 2021, the trolley leaves at 12.15 PM for the 1.05 game. The Rochester Red Wings are in town. Fare is $20.00 including round-trip on the trolley and admission to the game.

Phil Mulligan

You haven't lived until you've watched a AAA doubleheader (7 inning games) on Moosic Mountain at night in April. I think the ski runs were still open.

In the early 90's I would go to 30 or 40 games a year. If you are there in April at night, bring a blanket.

I took two first dates there. I married the second one.

By the way, the Red Barons are now the Iron Pigs.

Smart lady, marrying a baseball fan.

I had a good winter coat. I had a couple Stegmaier's too. Beer stayed cold.

Phil Mulligan

I have complete faith in Dunder-Mifflin's ability to become the economic revitalizer for Scranton and the region. And they need to commute to the head office in NYC, right?

I can't really respond about New York City-Scranton specifically, but I think we need to consider how things can--or should--play out in things like infrastructure spending.

I am of the opinion that we are past the point of diminishing returns on highway investment, and in some places--more than you think--we're running into limits.

There are places where roads are 8 and 10 lanes wide and more, but they can't be widened anymore. The land around them that was covered with cows and corn now has a layer of housing, shopping centers, office parks, and other "improvements," some of which are pretty valuable.

It's not just around big cities, either. There's a town in Virginia, just south of me, that has only 1,800 people, but it's threatened--or at least was, provided some different heads are running things in Richmond--by a proposal to widen I-81 to as many as 12 lanes in places, which would include dedicated truck only lanes. The reason for the town's concerns are that since this road was built in the late 1960s, a lot of businesses have opened up on the opposite side of the interstate from this town. (One of them is a small accounting office. I've been in it as an auditor to review the records of some of its clients.) If this widening project goes through, then a lot of these businesses have to relocate or just close up. This would have a severe effect on the tax revenue of the town, taking probably a third of this money away.

And it's not the only town on I-81 that faces such a dilemma.

Then there are limits with cars. A modern Corvette, to pick one example, is an amazing piece of engineering. Its frame is a welded assembly that looks as much a piece of modern art as the intricate structural member it is. The rest of the car is as equally astounding as a box of technological tricks, including carbon fiber springs, incredibly powerful engines and transmissions to transfer all that power to the wheels, tremendous brakes and suspension components and geometry to control all that power, and tires almost sticky enough that you could hang the car from a wall.

But it won't get you to work faster than a 1957 VW Bug.

If I were calling the shots in Washington and state capitols, I would put in a ban on new road construction or capacity expansion, or at least a moratorium. I would put the money into repairing all the deferred maintenance we've got, and get everything into good condition.

And finally, I would put a lot of new money into expanding rail service, including a lot more in the way of passenger rail. That's the one thing we need and don't have.

If you question the need for it, reread my paragraphs above about the limits we're running into on roads.

If you question the financial viability--in other words, if you think rail passenger services have to make a profit--well, you need to make sure the road system becomes financially sustainable, too, and shut the hell up about the increases in driving taxes and tolls you're going to have to pay. That's because you've never paid the real cost of the road system. Yes, it's subsidized, about $85 billion in 2019 alone, which worked out to about 45 cents per gallon, or $4.50 for a ten gallon fill-up.

And that's just what amounts to cash flow accounting. Full cost accounting, which would include depreciation charges and that deferred maintenance and other things, would make the picture even worse.

Think this sounds radical? I ask you, are my numbers wrong?

If my numbers are correct (they are), can we afford NOT to change things, even at the expense that will be involved?

Really, does any of that sound really radical, even if you don't like it?



https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformat ... 9/hf10.cfm

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformat ... 9/mf27.cfm