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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:17 pm 

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:53 pm
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Location: Alna, ME
Rode wet and put away hard.

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 219
p51 wrote:
How about those small scale ride-on steam locos (roughly about 'old GI Joe' scale) people straddle? Yeah, they're over-engineered due to the scale of the materials, but surely, one of those must have had a crown sheet somewhere in history. Something that size with that pressure would have the concussive force and shrapnel greater than that of a small military cluster bomblet. I can't imagine that it hasn't happened somewhere by now. Will that be a Gettysburg event if someday- God forbid- one goes off at the head of a train full of kids (or even worse, while passing another such train), as many of them are run on club 'layouts'?


I believe you are talking about 1.5" scale/7.5" gauge sized locomotives. The boilers on those sized engines and even up to some of the small-end grand scale locomotives really don't have the volume to have a full‐on BLEVE (Boiling Liquid Expanding Vapor Event) aka a "boiler explosion". A boiler won't get into the danger of that potentially happening until it's volume is greater than about 15 gallons. That's not to say they can't cause -serious- injury from steam scalds or other, but that they won't full-on explode like a larger boiler potentially could. That being said, they should be treated as if they could from a safety and boiler-care perspective.

Many states have size exemptions for construction and inspection on boilers that are that small, and most clubs fill the gap in that regard by requiring regular hydros and inspections. As you mentioned, they really are so over-engineered the threat is small. Look up photos of some live steam boilers that have been through the wringer- plugged with scale, wasted sheets, and stays necked down to the size of a toothpick. Absolutely terrifying, yet I'm not aware of any incident from the failure of such a miniature boiler that resulted in serious injury or death.

-Sam


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:18 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 4:41 pm
Posts: 33
Why is everyone getting upset over a locomotive they don't own? If the guy wants to run it off a cliff, that's his business.


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:15 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
InterlockingTower wrote:
Why is everyone getting upset over a locomotive they don't own? If the guy wants to run it off a cliff, that's his business.


I think it qualifies as animal cruelty. Not my circus, not my monkeys but I think it is plain stupid.


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:23 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
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Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:58 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 728
Location: Wall, NJ
To me the sad part is that no one here has reported that they made contact with the owner and offered to help. Most of the facebook postings on this also focus on tearing the poor guy apart. As usual, it’s so easy to point fingers from the easy chair, rarely does anyone offer up real help or guidance. I see this in other hobbies as well, its more entertaining to laugh at some poor guy than to step in and offer to help, which is usually much appreciated. Granted the operation here is off the edge for sure, but the more disturbing part is that it seems no one has taken to time to track the guy down and offer up some help.
J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:07 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 1080
Location: Bucks County, PA
JR May wrote:
To me the sad part is that no one here has reported that they made contact with the owner and offered to help. Most of the facebook postings on this also focus on tearing the poor guy apart.


Do we 100% know who it is that currently owns/operates the locomotive? I know that there are reports of who the last owner is and a where - is it the same person?

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:10 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 246
You're assuming the owner would "welcome a helping hand".

I'd say there's about a 9/10 chance anyone who operates like that would tell someone offering guidance where to go.

Agree - if he kills someone, just wait for the news stories and insurance premium hikes. most will only read the headlines, not the rest of the story about how it was on private property etc.


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:28 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 728
Location: Wall, NJ
Five minutes with google, armed with data from the initial post, I have a phone number for the guy. If anyone out in Washington state wants to call the guy, send me a note and I will provide the phone number.
J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:34 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Byers, Colorado
IMHO Owner operators with good, established safety records have nothing to fear from regulators. I say so because I was firing at Texas State RR when Gettysburg happened, and we were visited by both the FRA and the Texas State Bureau of Licensing & Regulation for the purpose of observing a safe operation. After spending a little time with us, they reached the conclusion that if the existing rules were followed, all is well.

Obviously all is not as it should be in that video, but publicly piling on the person involved doesn't really help our cause. Railroading isn't rocket science, but even the smartest person doesn't know everything on their first day. As best as I can figure, I've got about 20,000 hours in driving diesels, and another 2,000 firing and running steam. I've sure messed up a few times, and I'm damn glad that nobody posted a video of it online. Can any of you with that much time in tell me truthfully you've never screwed up ??

Rather than play "How many mistakes can you find in this picture" it might be more constructive for somebody with a bit of steam experience to try and help. The safety culture with which I was indoctrinated says that if you see somebody doing something unsafe it is your responsibility to say something to them about it. If you don't, it is your fault if somebody gets hurt later because of that unsafe practice. If you try to talk to them and they refuse to listen, you aren't at fault, and if they mouth off to you, it's OK to laugh if it catches up to them later.

If only to prevent further locomotive abuse and possible bad press for steam preservation, I'd be willing to try and help. Would anybody else ??

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
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Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Thu Aug 29, 2024 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Mr. Anderson hit the nail on the head. If we're driven out of business it will be done by the insurance providers pricing coverage at prices not sustainable.

That's always been the case. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 1:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
Posts: 419
Location: NJ
I can see it isn't being run correctly especially when it is run off the track.

I am a total novice as to how to operate a steam locomotive.

What is the operating doing wrong to get the stack to spray so much water / steam?

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 Post subject: Re: "How not to run a steam locomotive" video
PostPosted: Fri Aug 06, 2021 2:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Byers, Colorado
Insurance companies don't want to put anybody out of business, they just want to skim off all the profits from going concerns. Maybe somebody can offer evidence to the contrary, but in the prehistoric times when I worked for BN, we were "self insuring". It was cheaper to have lawyers on call. Would that work for heritage RRs ?? I don't know about that, but BN would have gone broke paying the premiums.

Again, I'm talking the distant past, but when I called the carrier that TRAIN recommended at the time for a quote on insuring my puddle jumper operation, which was a lot like the one in the video, they talked to me for five minutes and gave me a minimum quote. At least back in those days, they could tell the difference between safe operators and clueless ones. They told me the same thing that the FRA did --- "We aren't worried about you. What scares us is people with no railroad experience playing with steam locomotives and occupied passenger trains."

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