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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 6:21 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
CA1 wrote:
The 3ft gauge ETWNC from Johnson City, TN to Boone, NC would have been a Durango & Silverton of the east if still around.
As a huge ET&WNC fan, I of course strongly agree with you there.
When it comes to narrow gauge, far too many people think only of lines in Colorado and New Mexico and rarely ever beyond that.
The Doe River Gorge just outside of Hampton rivals anything you see on the Silverton line. I couldn't imagine a tourist RR made from that line that would have run through all those tunnels and bridges between Stateline Hill and Blevins. If the highways could have been placed next to the right of way (instead of atop them, especially around Elk Park), imagine seeing ten-wheelers (I'm imagining a world where #11 wasn't scrapped and she and 12 were still running out of the Legion Street engine house in Johnson City) going through covered bridge at the lower portion of Hampton.
It almost bring tears to my eye, the very idea of a Tweetsie that survived as the EBT and D&RGW portions had.

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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:44 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:03 pm
Posts: 94
Location: Southeast PA
SEPTA should have kept the entire West Chester Branch... population around West Chester is on the rise.

The restoration of service from Elwyn to Wawa is $180+ Million for just 3 miles.

I see it being hard for them to make the decision to return service to West Chester both financially and with the WCRR's presence.

(I know the line isn't technically abandoned, but essentially is "out of service" from a commuter standpoint)


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:20 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 231
PRR8063 wrote:
SEPTA should have kept the entire West Chester Branch... population around West Chester is on the rise.

The restoration of service from Elwyn to Wawa is $180+ Million for just 3 miles.

I see it being hard for them to make the decision to return service to West Chester both financially and with the WCRR's presence.

(I know the line isn't technically abandoned, but essentially is "out of service" from a commuter standpoint)

I believe there is a plan for the WCRR to run shuttle service from Wawa to West Chester on peaks and during weekends.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:34 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:40 pm
Posts: 46
I know I already mentioned the Pennsylvania Railroad's mainline to St. Louis, but what other parts of the PRR network would have been excellent for today's needs?

I had an alternate history where CN uses the Lehigh Valley to access New York markets. This same universe involves the Erie Lackawanna acquiring the Monon and Western Maryland, plus Nickel Plate. (PRR gets Norfolk & Western in this same universe).


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 8:51 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 231
TheDukeofDank wrote:
I know I already mentioned the Pennsylvania Railroad's mainline to St. Louis, but what other parts of the PRR network would have been excellent for today's needs?

I had an alternate history where CN uses the Lehigh Valley to access New York markets. This same universe involves the Erie Lackawanna acquiring the Monon and Western Maryland, plus Nickel Plate. (PRR gets Norfolk & Western in this same universe).

The Fort Washington Branch might have actually complemented SEPTA’s system nicely. It’s a shame it never had much traffic.

The Newtown Square branch was very scenic; the PRR ran fan trips there in the 50s quite often. Might even make sense now as an alternate routing of the 104 that avoids PA 3.

The Octoraro Branch might also make sense nowadays as a commuter line. The surrounding areas are much more dense. It would also make for a very scenic ride.

The Atglen and Susquehanna. Enough said.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:43 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
There is a five mile branch of the P&LE that came out of Struthers, OH and went almost straight uphill for four miles to a limestone quarry that I would have liked to see survive. With the quarry now a landfill it would have been a great route for moving C&D totally by rail. Part is now a trail, the underpass under NS is filled in and a very steeply angled road crossing completely reconfigured to the point where the roadbed is now 8 feet above road level on the south side and 8 feet below road level on the north side!

Another would have been the three miles of the east end of the Youngstown & Southeastern from Darlington to New Galilee so that we could have a southern interchange with NS. But it was abandoned in the mid 1940s when a bridge collapsed and subsequently PennDOT built a state route over the ROW. No bringing that one back either.

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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 11:07 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 576
Rick, I agree with you completely on the Carbon Limestone branch. It was built with heavy duty 131#RE rail with heavily built bridges. When was the cut filled in under NS? It had to have been a very challenging line to operate with 2+ % grades. The new landfill has been considered for expanded use requiring rail service within the last ten years. Perhaps it will find greater purpose with rail service in the future.

My other candidate is a real head scratcher in why Utah chose to abandon the lower end of the Provo Branch from Vivian Park down into Provo itself totally isolating the remaining 16 miles from the outside world.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 635
For me there’s two. One for strictly tourism, the other for actual freight

For freight, it’s the former B&O Washington - St. Louis mainline. Abandoned in places between Clarksvburg WV and Cincinnati OH. CSX seriously regrets getting rid of this line

For tourism, definitely the D&RGW Black Canyon route between Gunnison and Montrose. Despite the Geographical problems through its life and the weight restrictions during its operation, it would’ve made a spectacular tourist line, rivaling anything that exists today in the US, maybe aside from the Royal Gorge.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 9:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
Rob,

From what I was told, all trains coming down the branch had to stop short of the NS (then PRR) underpass and call the yardmaster for permission into the yard. The yardmaster would unlock a derail and give the signal when it was time for the train to enter the yard. This was so that a runaway train would derail itself before the underpass instead of piling up inside of it. All downhill trains also had to use retainers.

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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:24 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:40 pm
Posts: 13
Since most seem to be doing one line for tourism and another for freight, I'll give it a go.

For Tourism:

The PRR's Erie and Pittsburgh Branch between Greenville and Linesville, with a connection at Shenango with the Bessemer and Norfolk Southern. This right of way parallels the Shenango River and Pymatuning Lake. In real life, this line was in sad shape by the 1970's, but imagine a picturesque ride along Pymatuning Lake. Perhaps if the line had been better maintained, a CVSR-esque operation could have taken hold. I call it the "Pymatuning Shenango and Lake Erie."


Maineline:

Trying to keep in realistic in the context of the collapse of industry in the Rust Belt and shifts in the traffic base, I would go with the eastern end of the Erie Lackawanna. Specifically I would have the Chessie System work out an agreement to acquire the EL east of Sterling Ohio. In real life the Chessie System came within striking distance of pulling this off, but they were unable to reach labor agreements. Specifically, I believe that is was the Clerk unions that proved to be the breaking point.

If the Chessie acquired the EL, the route west of Sterling is eliminated, including Marion Yard, so little changes there. This buys the remaining EL at least 25 years as a mainline and provides Conrail competition for traffic into New York, Northern New Jersey, and New England. Hornell and Meadville hold out longer as railroad towns.

Going beyond it gets tricky. How does this impact Conrail? What about NW/NS? Perhaps NS acquires all of Conrail, but as a condition, must sell NKP and the Big Four to Chessie. Who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 7:29 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 372
Quote:
On the bright side, multiple locomotives still exist from the Smoky Mountain. Little River 110 (operational), Southern 154 (operational), SM 206 (Chattanooga Choo Choo), SM/SOU 107 (Entrance to Dollywood) and the GE 44 tonner is being restored at WW&S.


Which railroad is the WW&S? Did you mean the Walkersville Southern (WS)?


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:03 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
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Location: NJ
The old CNJ Southern Division, between Lakehurst and Winslow Jct.; if the Delair bridge gets stuck open or hit by a ship, there is NO rail access to South Jersey.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:39 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:40 pm
Posts: 46
Steamguy73 wrote:

For freight, it’s the former B&O Washington - St. Louis mainline. Abandoned in places between Clarksvburg WV and Cincinnati OH. CSX seriously regrets getting rid of this line


Likewise, I think that NS would also be a lot happier if Conrail has the foresight to keep the PRR between Pittsbugh and St. Louis intact.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 1:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:39 am
Posts: 91
Tim Moriarty wrote:
Quote:
On the bright side, multiple locomotives still exist from the Smoky Mountain. Little River 110 (operational), Southern 154 (operational), SM 206 (Chattanooga Choo Choo), SM/SOU 107 (Entrance to Dollywood) and the GE 44 tonner is being restored at WW&S.


Which railroad is the WW&S? Did you mean the Walkersville Southern (WS)?


Railroad in question restoring the 44 tonner is the Wanamaker, Kempton & Southern (WK&S).


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned lines that should have lived.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 8:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 22, 2006 4:25 pm
Posts: 372
I haven't been to the WK&S for some time but there is an ex-Smoky Mountain GE 44-ton owned by Jamie Haislip at the Walkersville Southern Railroad. It's way down the list of equipment to be restored and it's probably been at least four years since anything was done on it. As far as I know, painting is the only work that has been done on it so far.

After it arrived I needle-scaled, wire-brushed and primed some of its surfaces before being drawn away for other projects with higher priority. I'd like to at least finish the priming so it's all one color instead of mix of primer brown and old green paint, as well as a lot of bare rusty surfaces. It needs a LOT of work to make it operational.

Jamie's ex-PRR 9331 (GE 44-ton) is close to being restored and is at the top of the list. Reportedly his ex-PRR 9339 (also a GE 44-ton) doesn't need a whole lot of work before it too can be operational. His Plymouth CR4, ex-WMSR 7, is in the enginehouse where a new engine is being installed. His latest acquisition, a GE 45-ton side-rod from the Marion Industrial Center in Ohio, is in the enginehouse too and in need of work. His ex-ACF 9, another GE 45-ton side-rod, is in active service on the railroad.

I have a very long list of restoration and repair tasks at the WS. If I live long enough to finish them all I'll be around to a ripe old age.


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