The Yosemite Valley Railroad between Merced and El Portal, California would probably have become one of the more successful tourist lines if it had hung on for a decade longer.

The Rio Grande Southern between Telluride and Rico, over the Ophir Loop and Lizard Head Pass.

Southwest Forest Industries logging line south of Flagstaff, AZ

Apache Railway's line from Mc Nary to Big Lake and Maverick, Arizona. A portion of this was operated as the White Mountain Scenic RR from 1965 to 1974..

I should have mentioned the Ferrocarril Escenico, in Cuautla, Morelos, Mexico. It was 17km long, running steam 5 days a week with authentic NdeM narrow gauge equipment. Located in a provencial capital, it was almost free for passengers, and featured excellent views of Mexico's famous Popo & Ixta volcanoes. That was 30 years ago, only a trace remains today

Also 30 years ago, was the last use of steam for revenue freight (not part of any museum or tourist operation) in North America, on the FFCC Mexicano del Pacifico serving a sugar mill in Los Mochis, Sinaloa. This line was only 5km long, and not very scenic. However, it WAS connected to the famous Copper Canyon passenger service at the western terminus, and we stupid, lowlife railroad workers wanted to save it.

I tried very hard to get pictures and information published by the magazines when folks could have easily visited both these operations. This was at a time when Americans were starting to take expensive vacations abroad for steam, but the only place that ever gave either line any coverage is the ARTICLES section of this website.

I think the more feasible option to avoid PA 3 would have been to keep the Red Arrow Lines trolley route compared to the Newtown Square branch since it did not go all the way to West Chester.

I agree the Octoraro Branch would have been good as either commuter or excursion. Do you think the Wawa and Concordville RR would still be in existence if PC had outright sold the line to them and let them deal with the complaints/ track washouts?

Let me rephrase, it avoids the annoying parts of PA 3. West Chester Pike from 69th to the Blue Route can be unbearable sometimes.

I’m not sure. That’s a valid question. How much was the PC charging them?

Some notes on the Philadelphia area lines. When ConRail came in, SEPTA had an option to buy any line that was not to become ConRail.

First, the PRR side. SEPTA did acquire the entire West Chester Branch (West Chester & Philadelphia Railroad), and the entire branch was electrified. At the time real commuterr service ended at Media, the same Media then and now served by Red Arrow trolleys as well as PRR MU trains. Service to West Chester was a single car train from Media. SEPTA eventually discontinued the Media-West Chester service, then years later resumed service to Elwyn. SEPTA is currently jumping through the hoops needed to extend service to Wawa.

The West Chester Branch diverges from the Octororo Branch (Philadelphia and Baltimore Central) at Wawa. The BC continued to near Port Deposit MD where it connected with the Columbia & Port Deposit Railroad to Perryville where the Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore Railroad (Amtrak) crosses the Susquehanna River. MARC runs commuter service to Washington from Perryville.

The Newtown Square Branch (Philadelphia & Delaware County Railroad) last saw passenger service in 1908, Red Arrow trolleys having taken the business.

Phil Mulligan

Some notes on the Philadelphia area lines. When ConRail came in, SEPTA had an option to buy any line that was not to become ConRail.

First, the PRR side. SEPTA did acquire the entire West Chester Branch (West Chester & Philadelphia Railroad), and the entire branch was electrified. At the time real commuterr service ended at Media, the same Media then and now served by Red Arrow trolleys as well as PRR MU trains. Service to West Chester was a single car train from Media. SEPTA eventually discontinued the Media-West Chester service, then years later resumed service to Elwyn. SEPTA is currently jumping through the hoops needed to extend service to Wawa.

The West Chester Branch diverges from the Octororo Branch (Philadelphia and Baltimore Central) at Wawa. The BC continued to near Port Deposit MD where it connected with the Columbia & Port Deposit Railroad to Perryville where the Philadelphia, Wilmington & Baltimore Railroad (Amtrak) crosses the Susquehanna River. MARC runs commuter service to Washington from Perryville.

The Newtown Square Branch (Philadelphia & Delaware County Railroad) last saw passenger service in 1908, Red Arrow trolleys having taken the business.

Phil Mulligan

Continuing, the Reading Company side.

Reading Company was mostly electrified, but New York, Bethlehem and Reading/Pottsville used locomotive and coach trains.

The rural Newtown Branch (not the same as PRR's Newtown Square) had two weekday commuter trains, and one on Saturday. The City of Philadelphia decided to improve service to Fox Chase, within the City and increased service and then electrified to Fox Chase in 1965. The City had bought 12 new Budd RDC cars in 1962, ostensibly for this service but R.Co. bought 4 used RDC's and used the fleet on the diesel lines.

With RDC's available, RDG restructured its service in 1963, eliminating Mail and Express service and running trains at passenger-friendly times, mostly with RDC's

The Bethlehem Branch had electrified commuter service to Lansdale and locomotive and coach trains beyond. For the most part, the locomotive and coach trains did not make local stops in the electrified zone. After 1965 Bethlehem service was all-RDC.

The New York Branch had 5 Phila-Jersey City trains, 3 after 1963 and soon 2, both morning to NY, evening return. The RDC's included one RDC-2 and one RDC-3 which became coffee and beverage service on each of the NY trains.

The Main Line (Reading/Pottsville) was busiest. There were not enough RDC's so trains 4 and 7 were locomotive and coach. 5 cars were needed daily and RDG arranged pass through MU connections on 6 cars. There were (and still are) 3 FP-7's with one at each end of the train and one in Reading to rotate as protect power and for monthly inspections.

When Amtrak came in, RDG did not join and service continued as before. When ConRail came in, initially service continued but the Bethlehem and Newtown Branches became SEPTA owned and NJ DOT was not interested in transporting Pennsylvanians to New York. The Newtown Branch had few riders and was quietly ended.

SEPTA eventually had to take over operations and did so ambitiously but later an anti-rail faction at PA DOT insisted SEPTA could operate service only in its 5 home counties. The Main Line service had to end at Pottstown and the Bethlehem service at Quakertown.

The Center City Commuter Tunnel was not ventilated for diesels so the trains could not run through. Thus, the diesel service ended.

That is the Philadelphia area story.

Phil Mulligan

Except for one reference to the Chicago interurban routes, this very interesting and arguably railfanny discussion has been totally focused on railroad lines. But there were other trolley lines that might have merited rescue. Around here, an interesting discussion can start with the question: “If you could bring back one Pittsburgh streetcar line which would it be?”

The usual candidates mentioned are the 21 FINEVIEW and the 40 MOUNT WASHINGTON, both of them hill climbing routes abandoned within a few months of each other back in 1966. While the jaw-dropping grades (over 12%!) and convoluted alignment of the Fineview line has a strong appeal to this civil engineer, the unmatched scenery of the Mount Washington line would likely win hands down as a tourist draw.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.

If trolley lines are to be included, the PTC Route 23 must be discussed. If 12th and 13th were made trolley and pedestrian only between Arch and Locust this route could do very well for itself. Germantown and Chestnut Hill would certainly love the trolley running down their main streets again.

The Washington & Old Dominion was abandoned before its time as a useful commuter rail service in a busy corridor in the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC.

Wesley

In its final years the W&OD was owned by the C&O. I think the fact that there was some talk about using it as a future commuter line prompted the C&O to speed up abandoning it

The Erie/E-L West of Youngstown, OH, at least to Sterling. Major parts of the RoW are intact, but much of it in and around Akron have been obliterated, most recently by the reconstruction of a major downtown I-76 interchange. Akron Metro RTA owns the RoW from downtown to the Portage County line and PARTA owns much of it in Portage County. Major parts of it are a trail, but as we have been told, that can supposedly be reversed if needed for a railroad in the future. West of Akron, the ABC division of the Wheeling owns and serves the RoW from the Barberton City line to near end of track at the Diamond Crystal(?) salt plant near Sterling.

Interestingly PTC 15 and 23 Routes were the last surface-only trolley routes. The 1947 and 1948 PCC cars were not air contitioned but Brookville found a way to do it.

At the City's insistence SEPTA restored 15 Route trolley service with Brookville PCC-2 cars and found increased ridership. SEPTA subsequently disposed of the remaining rebuildable PCC cars. They would now be well over 70 years old.

Phil Mulligan

I recall it being listed as commuter rail connection on an early WMATA map.