Correct - but on the other hand, they certainly do fund and support it. They donate, they attend, they spread the word, etc. These activities also support college football - and thus could support preservation.

Exactly. Imagine buying a season ticket to football games, buying the Jersey, even paying for a VIP ticket to meet the players etc. and then being told you’re not an active supporter cause you’ve never done maintenance on the stadium.

LIKE

The people watching may still get interested. Some of those peoples interest will lead to them going to museums, or their kids dragging them there; and that leads to donations and gift shop purchases, and maybe even joining up.

I don't think it's fair to try and gatekeep railroad preservation.

The simple fact is that people aren't going to volunteer their time doing hot, hard, heavy labor on their free time unless it's something they are passionate about. That passion has to be sparked somewhere. For me I was with my uncle when we stumbled upon 1218 when I was 11 years old. I don't know if I even knew steam from diesel at that point, but I was absolutely amazed by the thing and it kicked off a life long passion (and yes I've done some volunteer restoration work). Call it the top of the funnel or whatever, but the only way to keep sparking that passion is through the entertainment value....getting people to do something out of the ordinary and having them walk away with a smile on their face. Honestly, getting people to show up track side might be the MOST important aspect of railway preservation because that's your pool of people who might visit your museum or buy an excursion ticket or simply spread the word. These are folks who more often than not have never seen a steam locomotive, never heard of an excursion train and never given a single thought to railroading other than the frustration of getting stopped at a grade crossing.

If we are going to draw a line and say that over there is entertainment and this over here is real preservation then maybe railway preservation will in fact die because we are cutting off our own blood supply.

Like. This is a massive investment in the future. Hopefully one or two of the tens of thousands who drag their Moms to see 4014 will grow up to be tech millionaires or hedge fund managers and remember their love post career, post family, etc. (A month ago Scott Lindsay said the hedge fund comment to me while my teenager was climbing up into the cab of 611 and I commented about the young people who were signed up for the 611 cab experience).

IMHO, another interesting observation is it is likely many of these kids dragging out their suffering Moms (who think it is pretty cool to post the picture of their kid in front of the pilot on Facebook (where, combined, MILLIONS see them)) perhaps regularly watch huge, massive, ground shaking, yet inhuman, GEVO's race by with the crews buttoned up in their A/C cabs and tinted windows.

But after that pilot shot, young Johnny gets to see the crew, who are kind, gracious and generous with their time. Ed has become a hero and inspiration for thousands of kids.

That's a great point. I mentioned my first steam experience being stumbling across 1218. The engine was just in from an excursion. While walking around it (and being kind of scared) a gentleman came up and chatted with my uncle and I. He explained some of the various sounds, etc. and invited me up in the cab. I didn't know it at the time but that gentleman was CEO Robert Claytor.

Simply running the train is most important, but finding ways for the public to get up close and personal with the engine and crew is another piece of the puzzle. Again, UP seems to be doing that very well.

Of the total of 7.6 million Americans who bought a ticket to go through the AFT's 10 display cars ( 4.1 million school kids,3.5 million adults) how many went on the be railfans?? Impossible to say but a fair number I'd guess.

Of the roughly 30,000 folks of all ages that took the tour of 614's cab before each of the 24 trips from Hoboken to Port Jervis,NY how many became steam lovers ? Again hard to say but some for sure.

Every time the 4014, 765, 1225, 611, 261, or the many steam tourist shortline steamers run they always make new disciples.

My greatest pleasure running # 40 at New Hope on the Santa trains is the chance while we're standing at the depot loading to show the engine off to young lads clearly enthralled with the magic of steam.

Steam is its own best salesman !!!

Ross Rowland

Yes, than you - when we forget that it's about people and not iron we shoot ourselves in our feet.

People gatekeep all kinds of stuff all the time.
Even among people who actually work at museums and tourist RRs, there's a self-imposed hierarchy among those who work on steam engines and run them, as opposed others who do not. It exists from one operation to another as well. I know because I've seen it happen several times as a brakeman on a tourist RR that currently has only a diesel while our 2-8-2 goes through a long rebuild.
One was so obnoxious about how 'disappointing' we were and how maybe someday I'll be a 'real' volunteer someday by working on and running steam. I said that if he was that disappointed, maybe he should go back to his beloved (and 'superior', to use his word for it) operation where he is at, and I'd be happy to reimburse him for his ticket out of my pocket so he could start heading back as soon as possible. Then I just started at him and watched his slowly sinking reaction. As I turned to walk away, a woman I assumed was his wife said, "You're lucky that's all he said or did."
Indeed, he was. But I like my volunteer gig there and won't throw it away for someone like that.
Ross, you're unlikely to ever find a bigger fan of the AFT, and I did get to see it in 1976 as a little kid. But for years afterward, when the subject ever came up with 'normal' people, they'd talk about the contents of the train itself. The only people who ever talked about 4449 up front had already been train fans before it arrived. That said, I think steam on the train was the cherry on top and greatly contributed to the entire effect overall, no question.

Yes, but is the place a professional football money machine pretending to be a university, or a university pretending to have an athletic program?

Same thing goes for certain other "crossovers" such as Disney World's trains, the aforementioned AFT, the Grand Canyon Railway, and others.

I can't help but sense that you're trying to be contrarian about this for little-to-no good reason

No, he isn't.

Having only a mere 25 or so spots available?

The late Bob Shane of the Kingston Trio used to organize and hold Kingston Trio "fantasy camps" in the 1990s where one who always had Walter Mitty-like ambitions of playing Kingston Trio music in their 1960s youth could finally do so WITH members of the trio--and book part of a resort stay, cruise, etc. Unlikely as it seemed, those "fantasy camps," like many other similar exercises for baseball, etc. drew dozens to a hundred or more per camp.

Naturally, of course, this is another "apples to oranges" comparison; "fantasy camps" are the province of rich people in or well past their midlife crises; the NRHS Railcamps have to sell to the PARENTS of young people with no income.......

(That doesn't mean I'm not setting out Railcamp brochures at the train show tomorrow, mind you.....)

If you took the time to read the brochures you put out, you would know scholarship money is available for NRHS RailCamp -- and your attendance are low by more than 50%.

Bob H