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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:39 pm
Posts: 29
Hold work days on the weekends. I volunteer on a steam cargo ship that has their work days mid week and we are right down the road from a Maritime Academy full of eager young students who would like to volunteer and learn but can't because of classes.

Realize that some younger people might actually be experienced, and know what they're doing. The professional 30 year old railroader doesn't need a talking down to from the guy who was a brakeman while they were in college 50 years ago.

Make it an enjoyable experience. People aren't going to stick around if they're treated like garbage, people constantly complaining about young people, or continuously doing crappy work. Why should they spend their precious free time working on trains and not hanging out with their friends or doing any number of other things. I put in nearly a decade at a museum as a mechanic, starting out as a 17 year old kid who didn't know a 2 stroke from a 4 stroke, but was allowed to help, learn, borrow manuals, and given just enough leeway to almost hang myself with to make it a very worthwhile experience that helped formulate my career goals in engineering.

I don't buy the whole shift from "real work". I went to school and work with plenty of young people who do "real work" wrenching on and navigating oil tankers. Plenty of young gear heads, car enthusiasts, etc. out there. I think it comes down to relevancy. Railroads to most people for the past 40 years have not been a relevant thing in their day to day life.

If I was recruiting, I might try setting up a booth at a car show or local fair with some locomotive pistons and rods to start the conversation. Maybe some photos or vids on loop showing a head, liner, et al. being pulled. People might not know they're interested until you show them.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
Agreed, Seth. Sometimes, all you to need to do is show them. For instance, you'd never be able to "roll coal" any better than this... LOL


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Last edited by NVPete on Sun Aug 22, 2021 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
I am 48 and I am the "old man" at the J&L Narrow Gauge. Almost everyone here is younger than I am, all the way down to 20 years old. We don't have any drama here. Just get together, work on building the railroad and have some fun in the process. Our biggest problem is that we get good young people then they get married and their free time goes away.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 6:47 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2686
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I know someone who is in their teens who really wanted into railroad preservation as a job...
Until he found out the nomadic nature of the gig. He's close to his family and didn't wanna move around from one place to another, trying to find the next job when the money ran out on whatever project he was working on.
I can't blame him for that one bit.
Utah Josh wrote:
The biggest strategy is to simply be welcoming, and the crowd you want will show up by themselves. An NRHS chapter tried to recruit me for over a year because their membership was in the upper 80s in age and dying off quickly. But I was ignored at the meetings I attended and they were only interested in watching Pentrex VHS tapes rather than actually doing or talking anything historical. I decided that they didn't really want me. Same with a local tourist railroad, I asked if they could use volunteers and they got me a volunteer application and waiver but it soon became apparent that they didn't actually want volunteers around so I never went back.

The local NRHS chapter I joined at 14 was welcoming, but they really didn't have anything I could do other than man tables and sometimes guest editor the newsletter. Looking back from hindsight, I see they were worried I'd get hurt and either they'd get sued or my Father would come down and beat the living heck out of some of them (which was a realistic fear to have in 1980s Florida, even though none them knew my father).
Cut forward 15 years:
I showed at a operating railroad with steam and I just asked the 'crusty old white guy' right out of central casting for such a scene, if they could use another hand. The guy looked me up and down with a sneer and said, "We can always use someone with a broom, but don't get any illusions about getting to run trains around here, we have people for that already." He literally threw a volunteer form at me, which landed at my feet
Another sneering up-and-down glance and he called me, "Kid" and made some comment I really don't remember anymore but it was something about how I couldn't handle the responsibility they'd require.
I'd never said this to anyone before or afterward, but I wasn't going to lave without saying it. It sounded like something from the script of "A Few Good Men," but so bed it:
"Old man, I'm 29 years old and I'm not a kid. I'm also an officer in the United States Army currently in command of the largest company-sized element on [the nearby Army Fort], with almost 300 soldiers. Tell me I don't have experience in what you're specifically doing and you'd be right, but you can take your assessment of what I can handle and stick it, because you are grossly out of your element, there."
All these years later, I remember what I said clearly.
The point here was it was another "old white guy" club who didn't want anyone new. Who knows what I could have done for them and I don't think I was anything special for that skill set, but clearly they missed out on an extra hand because many years after that, I became a brakeman on a tourist RR after all.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:42 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Amherst, OH
NVPete wrote:
If they're under 25, supposedly by today's convoluted standards, they're still considered "kids" also.


I doubt many people between the ages of 15 and 25 are going to appreciate being call a kid or young'un to their face. They'll quickly find someplace else to spend their time where they're not spoken to in a derogatory manner. I can't believe we still need to remind people this but treat people equally.

On the other hand, Utah Josh had some fantastic points.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
Just in case anyone believes I'm joking about that 25 thing, I wish I was...

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194

Let me rephrase that, "...by today's convoluted standards as determined by a select few". As far as I'm concerned, my Eagle Scout son officially became an adult the day he graduated from high school and anyone who believes differently can just go pleasure themselves with a pitchfork.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 409
Location: Amherst, OH
I mean you've referenced an 8 year old British article about the opinion of child psychologists.

Go ahead and continue calling the 25 year old volunteer "kid" and see how long they stick around your organization. Just don't come back here and lament about how the hobby is dying.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
Yes Emmo, and being that article is almost eight years old, I'm sure the idea is even more pervasive today. Sure, you're always going to have a small portion of stunted ones out there depending on how they were raised but most of them aren't.

If anyone had told me I was still a kid after finishing boot camp, they would've definitely been ripe for retaliation. LOL


Last edited by NVPete on Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:41 pm 

Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 11:28 pm
Posts: 90
I think the best, most important thing is to not talk down to younger people. Don't assume everyone younger than 30 is busy playing their nintendos and snorting tide pods; a lot of us have a real, genuine interest in preservation; and if they're showing up, they at least have some interest.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1654
Location: Byers, Colorado
I'll go along and say that treating young folks like adults instead of toddlers will sure help to hold their interest. On the flip side, you young 'uns might keep in mind that to us grouchy old bastards like Pete and me, anybody under forty is a "kid". Nothing personal, and we're mostly too senile to change. Be glad you're not over the hill yet like we are.

The young folks I've met through RyPN have all been smart, well studied, hard working, and much more mature, civilized, and courteous than some of the "grownups" on this site.

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who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11832
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
The key here is to ALWAYS treat individuals as JUST THAT: "individuals."

I have seen young women who dropped out of high school start up a business--farrier, brewery owner, craftsperson, etc. I have seen guys with mechanical aptitude start up as a mechanic and take over a garage by 30. I saw schoolmates become major antiques dealers, real estate auctioneers, and store owners right out of high school. And I have seen people who can't make something of themselves even at 30 with a double major college diploma.

I would not be surprised if at least some of the curmudgeon behavior observed is the result of weary veterans who have had years of "foamers" enthusiastically "volunteering" themselves when it's patently obvious that all they want is really an opportunity to be a train engineer a few times, and they'll totally lose interest in a year or two.
When someone has larger ambitions in the organization, and you shove them a wire brush or paint brush and point them at a passenger car, you're going to lose them. Instead, your job is to impress upon them the need for that specific work, why they're doing it, and make them CARE about doing that work. (And then don't "change horses mid-stream" and decide, as they're halfway done, to convert the car into an open car instead and negate their work.)

Like someone on a date, you need to evaluate the individual for what they can offer. Does the guy shoot pro video and do lots of online social media work? Is he or she a "people person" or have a "broadcast voice"? Does he or she network well with educators or news media? Listen to him when he says he's a mechanic or craftsman. Don't fixate on whether the guy has steel-toe boots or not (as one "boss" did the first time I showed up at one line as a prospective volunteer).


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2686
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Emmo213 wrote:
NVPete wrote:
I can't believe we still need to remind people this but treat people equally.
We don't treat young people equally. It's not an opinion, it's official policy wherever you go nd has been for as long as I can recall (I'm 51 years old right now).
You can't usually rent a car until you're 25, can't buy or own certain types of firearms until you're 21 and can't buy booze until the same age. There are lots of restrictions on people who can legally vote, enter legal contracts and be drafted into the military. I once went into a business that banned anyone under the age of 21 and they didn't have anything on the property that was age-restricted. I used to look younger than my age (I was 28 if memory serves) and they ID'd me. I asked why they did this and was told that younger people "are all a bunch of thieves and show no respect," to which I was asked what magically happened at the age of 21 to change that. That person just walked away, as she had no answer for that. I didn't spend a cent there, for that reason.
I saw it in the Army as well. I was 28 when I became a LT, and I was treated totally different from my peers, most of whom were 21 or 22, once people realized I was older than the usual 2LT. Does 6 years make that big a difference? I think not.
I've said it countless times; you can't discriminate for age if it's for someone who is old. But for someone who is young? Nobody will stop you, you can put it on a sign at the door, with a smile on your face and nothing will happen to you for doing so.
There's no lobbying body for young people to fight this happening, which I assume is why it's common. You'd never dream of discriminating for anything other than youth, these days, but it happens daily everywhere you go.
More maddening, people who experience it forget it happened to them and when they get older when it's no issue, they don't care about it happening to younger people. I've had this discussion with countless people over the years and the general mindset I get from most people was, "Well, I had to go through it, so now it's their turn."

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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11832
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
p51 wrote:
I've said it countless times; you can't discriminate for age if it's for someone who is old. But for someone who is young? Nobody will stop you, you can put it on a sign at the door, with a smile on your face and nothing will happen to you for doing so.
There's no lobbying body for young people to fight this happening, which I assume is why it's common. You'd never dream of discriminating for anything other than youth, these days, but it happens daily everywhere you go.


It's been suggested, in many places, essays, etc. that "young people" are not only sensing this, but now sinking themselves, voluntarily or not, into the morass of such lowered expectations.

One example being touted out there is not only the trend of the children of adult homeowners returning to the "nest" after four years earning a now-increasingly-worthless college degree, but now "riding" on their parents' health insurance until they're 26 as now allowed by law. What should be seen as an indictment of higher education's value, the out-of-control inflation of the housing market and rents, and the flaws of the private health insurance market is instead just an adjustment to the "new normal."

Bluntly put, young people in 2021 have challenges the likes of which the elders never expected to confront, with enough blame to spread across "society." The last thing they need is even more disrespect at a museum/tourist RR/society setting......


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 12:49 am
Posts: 35
Location: Bucks County, PA.
NVPete wrote:
Progress Rail is running employment ads on WRFY right now, Corey...

https://y102reading.iheart.com/


I appreciate the thought, but Reading is a bit far for me right now.

As for asking some friends, two said they were annoyed with how several places are contactable primarily or entirely by Facebook, and one said he doesn't have anything he can do that interests him (and he's allowed to do) in his area. all three people I talked to about it remarked on how little hands-on stuff there is to do in our age range, which is about 16-20.


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 Post subject: Re: How to Get the Kids Involved in Rail Preservation.
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 6:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Annville, PA
No problem, Corey, and judging by all the rust and crust I've seen in the general vicinity around here, I'd say there's plenty of hands-on work for both the younger and older guys to do...together.

And please, don't get me started about Flakebook. I've gotten in enough trouble on this site already. LOL


Last edited by NVPete on Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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