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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:08 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12145
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Connie4800 wrote:
take the shot or put on the mask you loser


I got "the shot" the week it was made available to my age group.

Part of the devil's bargain was that by getting the shot, we were supposed to be able to finally dispense with mask-wearing.
In fact, it's still going now as "Take the shot AND KEEP wearing the mask".

The antagonistic, bullying attitude you have exhibited, COMPLETE WITH NAME-CALLING, is precisely what huge numbers of the vaccine-hesitant are rebelling against.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I had a disturbing conversation with an infectious disease doctor on our train yesterday. He said he was convinced that the current situation we're in is what he described as a "permanent condition of life on earth," and he felt we will never again see a time when we could interact without being worried we'd catch something like this. Masks, he said, will be as common as shoes from now on.
Needless to say, that bummed me out.
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Part of the devil's bargain was that by getting the shot, we were supposed to be able to finally dispense with mask-wearing.
In fact, it's still going now as "Take the shot AND KEEP wearing the mask".
Had people not declared their own realities, rejected sound medical advice and never vaxxed until it was far too late, perhaps that guidance would have worked.
But, people being who they were, these new variants sprung up and now here we are.
Pandemics do this, one only has to read what happened in others in the past to known this would be expected if people didn't do what they should at the start.
That said, I expected new variants to show up, but that initial guidance was based on the info at hand, and was sound advice at that point.

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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 635
At some point I think more and more people will just decide they’re tired of this. Especially for a disease which certainly has a debatable level of severity to it. The pandemic doesn’t end until the majority of people decide they’re tired of it.

As for blaming unvaccinated people, even in countries where vaccination has been more widespread than the US, they’ve still suffered the same problems the US has, if not to a worse degree. I don’t think they should be the scapegoat for why the pandemic continues. Especially with this “mu” variant that vaccines aren’t helpful against apparently. If that’s the case then it makes vaccination matter even less than it already does.

I believe the pandemic will only end when the people in charge feel it advantageous to end and when the people who have to obey the rules are tired of it. Given the state of locations such as Australia these days, decisions aren’t being made based on the concepts of science anymore. If they were at all. Seriously angers me especially when they claim to champion science like this.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 151
p51 wrote:
I had a disturbing conversation with an infectious disease doctor on our train yesterday. He said he was convinced that the current situation we're in is what he described as a "permanent condition of life on earth," and he felt we will never again see a time when we could interact without being worried we'd catch something like this. Masks, he said, will be as common as shoes from now on.


Masking up forever may be a reality for urban areas and liberal-leaning regions, but masking will not be a norm in the rest of America, unless federally directed or mandated by every large business.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1799
msrlha_archivist wrote:
p51 wrote:
I had a disturbing conversation with an infectious disease doctor on our train yesterday. He said he was convinced that the current situation we're in is what he described as a "permanent condition of life on earth," and he felt we will never again see a time when we could interact without being worried we'd catch something like this. Masks, he said, will be as common as shoes from now on.


Masking up forever may be a reality for urban areas and liberal-leaning regions, but masking will not be a norm in the rest of America, unless federally directed or mandated by every large business.


Masks are not about “liberal leaning” areas - they are about saving lives. Period. Don’t bring politics into a health issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 151
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
msrlha_archivist wrote:
p51 wrote:
I had a disturbing conversation with an infectious disease doctor on our train yesterday. He said he was convinced that the current situation we're in is what he described as a "permanent condition of life on earth," and he felt we will never again see a time when we could interact without being worried we'd catch something like this. Masks, he said, will be as common as shoes from now on.


Masking up forever may be a reality for urban areas and liberal-leaning regions, but masking will not be a norm in the rest of America, unless federally directed or mandated by every large business.


Masks are not about “liberal leaning” areas - they are about saving lives. Period. Don’t bring politics into a health issue.


Correct, masks nor the disease have anything to do with politics. However, "forever masked" policies, as indicated above, will take root in liberal areas.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:54 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2874
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
msrlha_archivist wrote:

Masking up forever may be a reality for urban areas and liberal-leaning regions, but masking will not be a norm in the rest of America, unless federally directed or mandated by every large business.


Masks are not about “liberal leaning” areas - they are about saving lives. Period. Don’t bring politics into a health issue.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:30 pm 

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 10:27 am
Posts: 229
Location: New Haven Ct area
With out ratting out any organization in particular or being too specific, today I took the wife and kids out to one of the Northeastern United State's most kid friendly railroad events at a very well respected railroad in the preservation community.The place was packed. I think my observations were cars appeared to intentionally loaded to about 50% capacity as enforced by the railroad. Signs on the train spoke to mandatory masks.

Overall mask wearing for the event appeared maybe to be 20-30%. On my train car no one wore them. So if you can't get a mask mandate to work here in what amounts to a deep blue state like the one the event was held in, I have to wonder what a mandate looks like in a place like Florida or Texas?

In my case I was an early adopter/supporter of the masks until covid came to work. We all wore masks and we all (25-30 of us allgot it). I trust my eyes more than I do the news and at that point my faith in the things were shattered.

With that being said I understand that so many people are only comfortable around masks. Maybe like we used to with smoking and non smoking cars we ought to do the same thing with masks. I don't want to make someone else feel uncomfortable around me and respect others concerns, even if my life experiences have led me to see things differently.

Bigger concern I see now is with it being abundantly clear that this virus has the ability to quickly mutate around any vaccine one throws at it that we're going to be discussing how to live with this thing for years to come. I am sure I don't speak for only myself here but living out the rest of my life like it's 2020 doesn't sit well with me.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:35 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
The way I look at the TSA/FRA mandate is this: Your operating crew should mask up where appropriate or you can roll the dice and hope you don’t get caught with a surprise visit and possible fine. There’s not a lot you can do enforcing it with the general public but you do control your organization. It’s just another rule you’ve got to deal with ‘tis all.

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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1087
I highly recommend this August 27, 2021 paper published on the American Association for the Advancement of Science's (AAAS) Science.org:
Airborne transmission of respiratory viruses


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Sun Sep 05, 2021 11:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
msrlha_archivist wrote:
Masking up forever may be a reality for urban areas and liberal-leaning regions, but masking will not be a norm in the rest of America, unless federally directed or mandated by every large business.

For what it's worth, the doctor I talked with said he was conservative (as am I, but I also strongly support these.protective measures), and added that he didn't understand how this has been a political issue, "as to whether someone would consider the reality which were all in."

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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 12:33 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 635
John Stuart Mill said (to an extent) that “the truths we find in society are the ones that are unshielded from criticism, but continue to remain”. Our society making scientific findings seem like they’re somehow unquestionable truths, they therefore become less believable. Even if what being said is totally correct: the way it’s presented to the public can change minds. No one seriously questions the concept of gravity or Newton’s laws because they were allowed to be questioned by society: no one has a better answer for it because the bad arguments against it are allowed to fall.

That’s why it’s become a political issue. Not because there’s actual left or right leaning issues here but for how people perceive the way scientific findings are treated in modern society, and for how our politicians decided to champion it and make one side their cause.


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 578
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
jayrod wrote:
The way I look at the TSA/FRA mandate is this: Your operating crew should mask up where appropriate or you can roll the dice and hope you don’t get caught with a surprise visit and possible fine. There’s not a lot you can do enforcing it with the general public but you do control your organization. It’s just another rule you’ve got to deal with ‘tis all.
The standard line in most of the railroad rule books is something to the effect of, "When in doubt the safe(st) course shall be followed." In those that I have on my shelf I could find nothing about exceptions by declaring your railroad to be a floating crap game. The bottom line here is simple - if the reg requires that the crew to be masked then the crew will be masked. They will also have their eye protection, steel toes, and so forth. If you have any questions about what I meant in that last two sentences please reread it until you have resolved the doubt.

I have had to take this position here before. If you are following the health and safety regulations, no matter how ludicrous they may seem to you, only because somebody may be watching, then you should not be working on let alone running a railroad.

GME

Note: I am not reading Brother Schlentner's comment as a serious suggestion that one opt to roll the dice.

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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:30 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12145
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Steamguy73 wrote:
Given the state of locations such as Australia these days, decisions aren’t being made based on the concepts of science anymore. If they were at all. Seriously angers me especially when they claim to champion science like this.


Are you referring to the rather low levels of infection, or the fact that many people there are now calling for open rebellion to reclaim the substantial previous freedoms and liberties that have been surrendered?

As others have said elsewhere and here, it's not the strategies, it's the execution.
I'm leaving the hotel momentarily for Day Two of the travel the CDC director told me not to engage in--about 600 miles of driving yesterday with some RR preservation sightseeing thrown in.......
"Bite my shiny metal...................."


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 Post subject: Re: Transportation Mask Requirement extension
PostPosted: Mon Sep 06, 2021 11:02 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
It's really hard to understand the current anti-mask, anti vaccine campaigns being conducted by the far right wing of the Republican party. Between the 3 most watched hosts on the Fox News channel and Sen. Johnson and a handful of them in the House you'd think that masks are totally ineffective and that the vaccines are a left wing plot to inject you with a substance that will allow the gummit to follow your every move.

The sad thing is that their efforts have convinced a sizable minority ( 20 % ? ) that to wear a mask is to yield ones freedom and to never take the vaccine.

The irony is that the overwhelming majority of the now 1,000 plus people dyeing from Covid daily are unvaccinated ( 96% of the fatalities according to the CDC ) , so the net effect of it all is they're killing off their own supporters.

Talk about self destructive !!!!!

Just get the shot and wear the mask 'till this is conquered. It ain't complicated.....unless you want it to be.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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