Seeking Photos and/or Information of Bear Creek Junction

TheAnimeRailfan · **Joined:** Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:40 pm **Posts:** 45

Greetings fellow Railroaders, Historians and Train buffs alike!

Go easy on me, this is my first post. I come bearing questions about a former railroad museum. Around the 1960s, there was a place called Bear Creek Junction in Robbinsville, NC. They owned and operated, to the extent of my knowledge, a small collection of historic railroad equipment in the form of 2 shays, a small array of freight cars and a wonderful collection of passenger cars.

I am currently doing an artwork project on the Bear Creek Junction roster, and I am seeking any and all potential information on the full roster of Bear Creek. I have the following down, some of which I know/have completed for said art project and some others I don't know:

- Shays X2 (Heritage Unknown)
- Pullman 10-Section OBS "Mt. Darwin" as "Crescent/Robert E. Lee"
- Pullman 6-3 "Glen Fee" in UP Yellow. *DOES ANYONE HAVE PHOTOS OF THIS CAR AT BEAR CREEK?*
- Pullman 12-1 "Woodland" in Panama Limited Orange & Brown
- Pullman 12-1 "McKinneysburg" in Pullman Green.
- Rock Island Capone Coach *DOES ANYONE HAVE PHOTOS OR KNOW ITS ROAD NUMBER?*
- NKP Dining Car 131 "Nantahala Gorge" (Nee 108) *CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS BEING THE RIGHT NUMBER OR NAME?*
- New York Central Combine *NUMBER AND/OR PHOTOS?
- New York Central or L&N/NC&St.L Baggage-Post Office NUMBER, HERITAGE AND/OR PHOTOS?
- Wood Freight Cars.
- Caboose, Heritage Unknown

Can anyone help me with this potential information? It'd mean a lot to me :)

Glenn Opande · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:33 am

One of the shays was #112, which is preserved and on display at Galveston. It was repainted to Oregon Pacific & Eastern #112 but I don't believe it ever operated there.

The "Mt. Darwin" was painted as "Robert E. Lee" and in Southern Crescent colors while in NC. An old newspaper article incorrectly described this car as operating on the Crescent.

That's about the extent of my knowledge.

Dave · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 10:31 am

It was a tourist railroad, BEAR CREEK SCENIC RAILROAD, not a museum. Shay 1925 is preserved at NCTM at Spencer, NC. Busy place in the 1960 - 1975 era. Check out Ron Ziel's TWILIGHT for several pages showing the railroad in its freight moving incarnation. You will find advertisements in copies of old Railroad Magazine issues. Apart from gift shop type commercialism, not a bad time machine back then.

203 · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 12:44 pm

When #112 was at Bear Creek it was numbered 1923 and named "Ole Cliffhanger". Pictures are available via Google.

John T · **Joined:** Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm **Posts:** 1270

Bear Creek Scenic RR had 3 Shays:
s/n2147 "OLE SIDWINDER"
s/n2804 on loan
s/n3241 #1923 "OLE CLIFFHANGER"

You can get their full histories here: https://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/se ... aframe.htm

wesp · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:37 pm

Topic Drift

How/why did Southern Railway own s/n 2804?

Wesley

(7-1965) Brimstone & New River RR #36, New River, TN
(10-1965) Condemned by the ICC for dead flanges
(4-1966) Southern RY. (as subsidiary New River RY, controlled by the CNO&TP), New River, TN
(1967) Loaned to: Tennessee Valley RR Museum #36, Chattanooga, TN
(~1973) Loaned to: Bear Creek Scenic RR, Robbinsville, NC, for display
(3-1987) George R. Kadelak (railfan), Crown Point, IN

Alan Maples · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 5:47 pm

This topic has come up before in various threads such as this one:

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5791&hilit=bear+creek&start=15

- Alan Maples

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

TheAnimeRailfan wrote:

Greetings fellow Railroaders, Historians and Train buffs alike!

Go easy on me, this is my first post. I come bearing questions about a former railroad museum. Around the 1960s, there was a place called Bear Creek Junction in Robbinsville, NC. They owned and operated, to the extent of my knowledge, a small collection of historic railroad equipment in the form of 2 shays, a small array of freight cars and a wonderful collection of passenger cars.

I am currently doing an artwork project on the Bear Creek Junction roster, and I am seeking any and all potential information on the full roster of Bear Creek. I have the following down, some of which I know/have completed for said art project and some others I don't know:

- Shays X2 (Heritage Unknown)

There were quite a few Shays in the area. This was the tourist arm of the Graham County Railroad. 3 Shays operated on the GC/BCJ at various times. 1925, 1926 and 1923/112. 2147 was a display piece at entrance to BCJ. Brimstone 26 was brought in circa 1973 for rebuilding for operation. Placed on display at BCJ and never operated before that version of the railroad ceased in July 1975. Shipped out before GC v3.0 began. 1925 and 112 operated until the end of the railroad in Aug 1970. 1925 was stored at BCJ 1970-73, operated 1973-75, then stored at BCJ again until being shipped out in about 1987.

Then, there were 2 Heislers from Maggie Valley that were stored in Robbinsville for a time. I'm not aware that they ever did anything at BCJ other than pass through on a flatcar.

TheAnimeRailfan wrote:

- NKP Dining Car 131 "Nantahala Gorge" (Nee 108) *CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS BEING THE RIGHT NUMBER OR NAME?*

Can anyone help me with this potential information? It'd mean a lot to me :)

The car was lettered Nantahala Gorge per the photos I have.
Kevin

Kevin Gilliam · **Joined:** Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm **Posts:** 292

Glenn Opande wrote:

One of the shays was #112, which is preserved and on display at Galveston. It was repainted to Oregon Pacific & Eastern #112 but I don't believe it ever operated there.

Now in Knoxville, TN at Three Rivers Rambler.

wesp · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 6:04 pm

Alan,

I see #36 mentioned briefly in the referenced thread, but nothing about its time under SOU ownership.

Wesley

TheAnimeRailfan · **Joined:** Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:40 pm **Posts:** 45

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

TheAnimeRailfan wrote:

Greetings fellow Railroaders, Historians and Train buffs alike!

Go easy on me, this is my first post. I come bearing questions about a former railroad museum. Around the 1960s, there was a place called Bear Creek Junction in Robbinsville, NC. They owned and operated, to the extent of my knowledge, a small collection of historic railroad equipment in the form of 2 shays, a small array of freight cars and a wonderful collection of passenger cars.

I am currently doing an artwork project on the Bear Creek Junction roster, and I am seeking any and all potential information on the full roster of Bear Creek. I have the following down, some of which I know/have completed for said art project and some others I don't know:

- Shays X2 (Heritage Unknown)

There were quite a few Shays in the area. This was the tourist arm of the Graham County Railroad. 3 Shays operated on the GC/BCJ at various times. 1925, 1926 and 1923/112. 2147 was a display piece at entrance to BCJ. Brimstone 26 was brought in circa 1973 for rebuilding for operation. Placed on display at BCJ and never operated before that version of the railroad ceased in July 1975. Shipped out before GC v3.0 began. 1925 and 112 operated until the end of the railroad in Aug 1970. 1925 was stored at BCJ 1970-73, operated 1973-75, then stored at BCJ again until being shipped out in about 1987.

Then, there were 2 Heislers from Maggie Valley that were stored in Robbinsville for a time. I'm not aware that they ever did anything at BCJ other than pass through on a flatcar.

TheAnimeRailfan wrote:

- NKP Dining Car 131 "Nantahala Gorge" (Nee 108) *CAN ANYONE CONFIRM THIS BEING THE RIGHT NUMBER OR NAME?*

Can anyone help me with this potential information? It'd mean a lot to me :)

The car was lettered Nantahala Gorge per the photos I have.
Kevin

Is it possible you can share photos of the car? It'd really help out in a project I am conducting. ESPECIALLY if any of those photos also give more info on Glen Fee's UP appearance, the Rock Island Coach and those two NYC cars next to the NKP Diner.

I make sprites of trains (done by yours truly and a person named AndrewK4 who operates on DeviantArt) and Bear Creek is one of my upcoming projects. All the Pullmans are done except Glen Fee, though I still plan to add the rest of the fleet down the line.

Alan Maples · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:00 pm

wesp wrote:

Alan,

I see #36 mentioned briefly in the referenced thread, but nothing about its time under SOU ownership.

Wesley

Wesley - I was responding to the thread in general but to your specific question, the Mountain State Railroad & Logging Historical Association web page includes a Cass roster with the following information about #36:

C/N 2804, 1916; Class 70-3. Built as a wood-burner (Radley & Hunter stack) for W.M. Carney Mill Co., Atmore, Ala. as No. 5; found to be too slow for Carney’s purposes, thus returned to Lima, 12-16; converted by the factory into a coal-burner (taper stack) and sold to W.M. Ritter Lumber Co. as its No. 1 [by 5-17]. First operated under Ritter ownership by wholly-owned subsidiary Raleigh Lumber Co. at Fitzpatrick, Raleigh County; transferred to Ritter’s job at nearby Oxley (now Beaver), Raleigh County, 19[2?]; then to Maben, Wyoming County, [?]-2[?]; hence sent to the Ritter operation at New River, Scott County, Tenn., 10-45 as common-carrier subsidiary Brimstone R.R. No. 36. Rail-logging and lumber transportation was waning – the Shay also pulled coal; subsequent to the mill’s [?]-4[9] closure, service was exclusively related to coal. The Brimstone was formally abandoned by Ritter successor Georgia-Pacific on 4-30-65; operation was leased by Scott Coal Co. until ICC approval of the Brimstone & New River Ry., which began in 7-65. Last operated in 10-65 (condemned by ICC inspector for worn flanges); the railroad became property of Southern Railway System in 4-66. New River Ry., a minor subsidiary, was controlled by the Southern Railway System’s CNO&TP. Engine was loaned to the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum (Chattanooga), [?]-67. After years of benign neglect by TVRM, loaned to Bear Creek Junction (Robbinsville, N.C.) for restoration and return to service, [7]-7[3]; after BCJ folded, faced scrapping at Robbinsville; acquired for $4,000 by Indiana Shay fan George Kadelak, 3-87. A lease deal with the State of W.Va. for repair and operation was arranged; trucked to Cass at Kadelak’s expense, [?]-87; for a time in 1990, there were plans for an overhaul during the 1990-91 off-season (this did not transpire). Purchased by the State, 4-94; has sat on the yard dead line since 5-93; the boiler is sound, but she needs considerable, expensive work prior to service.

I presume the Shay was on the property when Southern took over in 1966 and I suspect W. Graham Claytor had a hand in seeing the locomotive saved and loaned to TVRM.

https://www.msrlha.org/roster-locos.html#shayun

- Alan Maples

wesp · **Posted:** Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:46 pm

Alan,

Thank you.

Wesley

TheAnimeRailfan · **Joined:** Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:40 pm **Posts:** 45

Kevin Gilliam wrote:

The car was lettered Nantahala Gorge per the photos I have.
Kevin

Any updates if possible? Can you share the photos or are they not to be viewed?

Catalpa · **Posted:** Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:41 am

There is a listing over on the NKPHTS website of preserved equipment, broken out by category. The diner you mentioned is discussed there. It isn't the NKP 131. For the time being, it continues in existence, I believe. It ended up in the Iowa Pacific fleet, when they acquired it from the museum in Galveston. Some of the other sleepers you mentioned were also aquired from Galveston, at the time.