That and folks seem to be beating up on a person whose native language is not English (either Kings' or American).

Link please correct me if I am mistaken..............mld

Why is this forum just all b*tching now about minute details?

Be happy that it’s saved. Not the most glamorous or famous of pieces but like the ubiquitous 0-6-0, it is iconic in its own right. Congratulations monticello for yet another locomotive.

@Alexander

challenge accepted

What about...some steam...
Weed Lumber #4
Sierra Railway #18
Great Northern #1246
McGaffey Contracting #2

recently scrapped
Coos Bay Lumber #10
3x Passenger cars WP/DRGW xxx from 1910

off record for the challenge some beyond 1922
Charles R. McCormick Lumber #100
Sierra Railway #34
Sierra Railway #36
Bonhomie & Hattiesburg Southern #300
Anderson & Middleton Lumber #1
Compania Maderera de Durango #4
Baldwin demonstrator #750

and old diesels recently scrapped
CB&Q #9106 GE44t made in 1941
MILW #1613 SW1 made in 1940
Brooks Scanlon #102 S-3 made in 1952

PS
I do NOT understand what you mean international. Please explain (btw south america did
not fit your line of countries).

And no not arrogant. I am the kind of beautiful mind that average people are so afraid that
they go for personal attacks when they run out of argument.

ICONIC
HISTORIC

yes maybe there is a different opinion on that...
no offend but
it may that our "Germani" definition is different because our history go back to 600BC.
That mean our thoughts about when something is historic going a different timeline then
the american mind. It might help to look another field of collecting - firearms - here the
GCA define antique as Dec/31/1898 or before and vintage is widely accepted for anything
made boefore the NFA of 1934.

But I can give you a nice solution to find out if your piece of industrial history is an icon:
Offer it for free to the Smithsonian Institution for permanent display in DC. If they accept
you are a winner.
If you think it is more a local icon...do the same with the Museum of Science and Industry (Chicago).

I am surprised how different things in automobile museum are.
Not many visitors are happy to find an advertised 1950 Chevy with a 1977 Toyota
body, new Mercedes axles, modern electronics and the AM/FM changed for a CD player
inside an automobile museum.

@Chris Webster

I understand that is your opinion:

"I respectfully disagree with Dave. Merriam-Webster's definition of iconic includes "widely recognized and well-established". I think that describes this locomotive - it was 1 of a fleet of 112 that worked for the IC and ICG for 48 years, so it meets the "well established" part of the definition. Their angled cab roofs made them widely recognized to fans and modelers."

But can you proof it?
Print the pics of the first post, go to the next modelers convention and ask the people on
the entrance "What did you see on this pictures". We know both what the outcome is...
But if the right answer IC SW14 is more then 5% i owe you and your family a nice dinnner.

well established let see my point of view
The "10 Locomotives That Changed Railroading" Trains Magazine 2010 list only one loco
made after 1972 -> GE Evolution series - well over 6000 made.

Wow! And I thought it was me that was jaded and had seen it all...

This thread raises the bar in cattiness and snark.

A historic locomotive has been saved. There is no reason to complain about this, at all.

And failed.

I specifically said "STILL IN SERVICE."

I was regarded as a "walking encyclopedia" of rail preservation among several rail archivists, and even I had to look up virtually everything you listed.

Basically your entire list is "failed/stalled preservation efforts," and thus have to be specifically excluded from your rant "Are there no more 100+ years old engines out there to preserve?" THEY WERE ALREADY PRESERVED.

Monticello sought out a locomotive they deemed preservation-worthy, and made it happen. They presumably have no use for, or interest in, the Sierra steamers, GN 1246, the WP/D&RGW passenger cars, etc. except as trading fodder. And the relocation costs make those expensive fodder.

And you were the one raising the "international" specter with "40 years old diesel wow for us european that is like new nothing for a museum". So I called your bluff. Are any European locomotives 100+ years old and still running in commercial operation NOT involving preservation or tourism?



Major museums got where they are by being selective and sound in their curatorial practices. None of them can save "everything."
The Smithsonian does not operate a rail museum like they do an Air & Space Museum. They were offered a PRR GG1 by Amtrak in 1980, and declined because enough examples were being preserved elsewhere.
In effect, all our other museums, from IRM and California State RR Museum to Monticello to the smallest station depot, substitutes for the Smithsonian. It's nice not having to go to DC to have to see a GG1, or the N&W J or a UP Big Boy.

@Alexander

Thank you I smile inside ...

So the the Kepner locomotives did not change ownership last year?
The new owner decited not to keep them and put them up for sale?
So their preservation status is certain?

The mexican ones are for sale pre-covid. I talk to the owner before.

So yes a lot of 100+ years engines available right now for preservation.
Everything I listed (exclude the scrapped ones) is for sale today!
That this is all a monetary thing and had to fit Monticello needs was not part of your challenge.

Question about other museums:
How much stuff was lost a couple of years ago in Noblesville, IN in addition to that
MILW SW1 I listed. I have no overview maybe you can help?

PS
Just come in some rumors that the Weed Lumber #4 is sold already. Will see if true...

The Kepner locomotives are in safe hands of the Oregon Coast Scenic. They own all of them now and will sell the ones they don’t keep for themselves to organizations that will safely preserve them for the future. So there’s really not anything to worry about there.

And for the others you list? I don’t have many details, but every now and then there are simply pieces that exist while we’d like to have them saved, unfortunately just don’t work out like that.

Irony that you list out an SW1 and a 44 tonner as “recent diesels scrapped”. Why do those matter more than this SW14 which is only a few years younger than either of those?

The amount saved from the ITM is honestly pretty staggering. It’s warming to see how much was saved there, and how real attempts at scrapping steam locomotives are extremely rare in this day and age. Even with Coos Bay #10, we still have #11 kicking around as good as ever.

If you want to save a steam locomotive from being in danger, you don’t have many options nowadays because the status of most are secure: either in parks or museums. The easy choices of “the EBT fleet” or “B&LE 643” now no longer are options. Neither are the lost engines of Roanoke. That’s why it was so rare to see something like CPR 5361 or L&A 503 in this day and age: and as we know well, neither are gone from this world.

But you want to save a steam locomotive? Ok. I’ll give you some options then.

T&NO 319 in Georgia. Find it and you’ve got a pretty 4-6-0

IC 333 in Louisiana. Little 0-6-0 in poor shape, museum that had it shut down totally due to COVID in 2020

GTW 8305 in Illinois. This one is a bit more well known. 0-8-0 in terrible shape. Real fixer upper if you even want to cosmetically restore it.

And that’s all I can really think of in terms of locomotives that don’t have any security whatsoever in the United States. You could count some cruddy park engines in there if you’d like, but that wouldn’t fall under “endangered” unless they were about to literally fall apart completely or if the city they reside in plans on turning them into my new toaster oven.

So there you go. Please stop complaining about what’s being saved and what isn’t unless you have a solution to solve that problem, or you’re willing to contribute such a solution. I now gave you three locos you could save yourself. Unless you’re a hypocrite I expect to see a fund drive for at the very least transporting one of these locomotives to a museum (perhaps Monticello) with your name on it. I suggest the 0-6-0 on a personal note.

After all, Monticello has all this IC equipment. They could certainly use a steam switcher of similar heritage to move it around don’t you think?

Steamguy73 -

Sounds good. What does Monticello think though?

Les

Obviously I wouldn’t know. I’m not from there nor do I know anyone who works there, I don’t really have the means to start anything at the moment.

However, that to me just makes logical sense for it to end up there Les. They’re clearly willing to expand their amount of equipment, and they definitely take care of their stuff. My observations is that they do an excellent job in caring for what they have and even using it too.

Being of IC heritage it would fit in perfectly there, even if it never moved under its own power again. I do know however that they know of its existence. One of the passenger cars displayed with it while it was in Baton Rouge was purchased by Monticello when the display was split.

Just a little idea of mine. Not something that I can will anyone to do, but I’d like to think that something like that could happen. If they wanted to get it to Illinois I’d help any way I could.

I'll throw in another option "if you really want to save a steam locomotive":

PRR 60 in Delaware. Among the absolute worst "rust buckets" for which preservation has ever been attempted.

Even "saviors" like Jerry Jacobson and Andrew Muller have never bothered with this.

There are reports another museum group is preparing to relocate this to their museum for preservation. I sincerely hope it doesn't come to pass; it would be a major "albatross" around their neck.

If we consider condition as a metric for “endangered” then that’s the prime example no question.

I was mostly thinking about pieces that didn’t have a permanent home or care more specifically instead of simple park engines that haven’t gotten much TLC. Because at least those pieces have a home: even if it’s not a great one.

@Steamguy73

I am not sure you understand or read evrything. As I posted before I like to preserve as
much as possible. I complain about that facebook language they used to descripe a SW14.

I try to answer your questions:
quote
"Irony that you list out an SW1 and a 44 tonner as “recent diesels scrapped”. Why do those
matter more than this SW14 which is only a few years younger than either of those?"
-> 1st Generation/1st Iteration in most original configuration (Engine, Motors, Axles, Body
unfortunately the GE had an replaced phase IV body) vs a 1950 with 1977 upgrated 567AC
or internal 645 engine with new electronics, axles and body.

The steamers come to this threat because Alexander ask and I find them...

The steamers you mentioned are for sale? The ones I listed are!
You have the owner who is willing to sale and legal representative to sign a transfer of ownership?
In case of IC333 you sound like you very exited about.
In case of the 0-8-0 I think it is to big for commercial successful operation. And an only
Musem restoration would go almost in price range as operating restoration.
The Houston & Texas Central #119 would be good if I "find" it. As I say what about
for sale, not for sale, ownership, outstanding loans/rent...? I think find it and load it up
without "title" is still a crime in GA?

quote
"The Kepner locomotives are in safe hands of the Oregon Coast Scenic. They own all of
them now and will sell the ones they don’t keep for themselves to organizations that will
safely preserve them for the future. So there’s really not anything to worry about there."
I am pretty sure if I can match the asking price of OCSR and Martin I can buy them
regardless what I do with them... (American way of business...Money). I would refuse
Sierra #34 because I expect long legal battles if anyone try to remove from Jamestown.

quote
"Unless you’re a hypocrite I expect to see a fund drive for at the very least transporting
one of these locomotives to a museum (perhaps Monticello) with your name on it. I
suggest the 0-6-0 on a personal note."
... solve the sale and legal stuff I mentioned first.
Since the last steamer I co-finance the restoration and new welded boiler I change my
approach. No more donations. Now it is -> my money my engine!
(That 1'C1'h2t Pt35.15 get a complete restoration from park engine to operating 6 month
per year with my club in Ebermannstadt. Unfortunately RAW Meiningen build the boiler to
standard config with one steam dome before the engine arrive there. But 64491 was one
of the few with two domes. I refused, the other accepted. So I change my approach)
Here is a professional made video about that restoration (if you look closely you can spot
me at the end of the video). It is in german language.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1cxuo2QhiLk

My actual project is that Shay in Mexico. Before covid I had almost all cost for transport
to Meiningen, restore to factory new and retransport to Montreal together.
Will see if this all work out after covid (it look like the container transport now quadrupled
to germany plus I have no new quote for regular freighter transport back to north
america) and if I could perform this without bribing the mafia there.