Have not posted in nearly 1.5 years, we were put off with all the lock downs and such in California. While doing nothing I was talked into picking up a couple of diesel Porters, one 2 foot and one 3 foot, not exciting diesels. Oh well it keeps us motivated but this is not the serious ones. As he pointed out to us, "well just add a third rail" to run both 2 and 3 foot on the same layout. Now I have seen 3 foot loco's pulling 2 foot ore carts, just pulling off of center on the loco. But when you have a 7 ton 2 foot and a 20 ton 3 foot, what do you do to compromise on rail size ? How small is too small and how large is too large ? I know, pending wheels but then ?

Ultimately it could be 8,000 feet of laid rail. Fits on the property easily, so this is a big problem. I expect and have someone looking out for me, rebuilt Chinese rail. Yes, old rail that was reground. Any food for thought out there ?

Not paid for yet and still negotiating, running 0-4-0 steam 25 ton, former mining locomotive ( the owners are a theme part clearing out ) that was using both 60 pound and 80 pound rail on 3 foot track tight as 50 foot radius. That would not be a happy profile for a small 2 foot ?

Really had planned on running 2 foot but time and money on restoration of a rust bucket compared to a near fully service one, well, I am not getting any younger.

Tnks, Dan

A few random thoughts….
Use the largest degree curves you can fit in the space. You’ll thank yourself later for maintenance and operability i.e. keeping stuff off the ground from climbing the high side (outside rail).

The rails in dual gauge track should all be the same size.

Your choice of rail is going to come down to what’s available in the quantity you need unless you’re buying new. Also consider the availability of any miscellaneous track materials and components in that decision. For example, tie plates are sized to width of the rail base. Keep in mind that there are different types of rail with the same weight per yard and the heights or widths may be different. Try to use all the same rails or you’ll be scrounging or making odd compromise joint bars.

If used rails, keep the worn side to the outside and the good side to the gauge.

60# vs. 80# - In my mind, bigger is better.

If it were me, I’d pick one gauge to keep it simple.

Rick Rowlands is running 2’ so I’m sure he’d have some pointers. I’m also sure others will chime in.

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If you can find the manufacturer's catalog page (California RR museum?) for the locomotive it will probably specify what minimum size rail is needed. A really tight curve may need the rail pre-curved before laying. If you can't get enough of one size of rail use the larger on the "high" side or outside rail of your curve. Pay attention, as mentioned above, to the size of the base and make sure it matches the size of your plates, if you use plates. Joint bars sizes and punching (bolt hole drilling) are critical.

Thanks, obviously I have not done this before. This is where I have to figure out flange and rim dimentions, weight per wheel axle wheel base etc. for what mix. The diesel Porters were mining locos and were run on some pretty sloppy rail. Rail is now gone but I have some samples.

Probably the smartest and not the cheapest, is to have an industrial rail contractor lay it down. Business is slow for them in California and one-two are interested in the work.

I just have to figure out what to do. That is why I am looking at the possibility of using re-manufactured Chinese rail. At least it will all match and I will know what contour it is. But we have to buy a bunch of it to make it cost effective.

I guess in the right case we could change the tires on the smaller gauge, cheaper to have "tires" made for match the rail rather than match the rail to the tires. Does that sound logical ?

Dan

A rail drill with the proper sized guides and bits for your rail and a saw (do NOT torch-cut your rails - they’ll eventually crack or break under load) will quickly become your best friends. Ours are both gas powered. Can’t live without them. A rail bender may also be handy. You can get manual ones. They ain’t the easiest to use but they’ll get the job done. You’ll also need a gauge and level. Those are things you can’t eyeball.

And don’t forget expansion gaps at the rail ends or you may be prone to sun kinks when hot or pull-aparts when cold. There are charts online that show the proper gaps at different temperatures when laying rail.

Oh. And pay attention to drainage or your ties and ballast will have a shortened life span. You’d rather spend more time running than all your time constantly working on track.

[edit] I forgot to mention a pneumatic spiker and tamper. They’re way faster than doing it manually. Tamp only under the rails.

Nope. Joint bars are designed to clear standard flanges under the ball of the rail. If you’re banging over them with wheel flanges then you’ve got badly worn wheels with high flanges or the rail is severely worn down and shouldn’t be used. Wheel gauges will determine if the wheels (or tires) are to be condemned.

I would highly recommend choosing one gauge and selling off the other locomotive. Sounds like your only piece of two foot equipment is a diesel that needs a lot of work. Is that really worth the added cost and hassle of adding a third rail for that one loco? Rail is hard enough to find, but having to find a third more of it is worse. Building three rail turnouts isn't even something that I would consider tackling!

60 lb. rail is probably your best choice as you can get switch components easily and it will handle the weight of the 25 ton locomotive. We run our two foot gauge 40 ton 0-4-0T around a 40 foot radius curve and it glides around like its not even there.

One other consideration is tie spacing. Mr. Anderson's post gives good science behind determining the proper rail weight, and this assumes that the ties are spaced properly. You could stretch your dollars by spreading the ties out, but this would add stress to the rail.

I don't have the data for three-foot gauge track, but I'm guessing around 24" centers would be about right.

JR

Zorbex,
I do not know what part of the country you are in; but the WW&F Museum has bought several truck loads of 56-pound rails from Kervalchick in Indiana. They seem to carry all the lighter sizes down to 40-pounds per yard. They will deliver it free if you buy it by the truck load.

When you start laying your rails, be sure to use tie plates; especially in the turn outs. They will add to the cost; but make your work last a lot longer!

Can you give us any details about what I suspect is an H.K. Porter 0-4-0 at three foot gauge? There are hundreds of them still around.

Ted Miles, narrow gauge fan.

Ted, tnks for the link, we have been referred to them. Trying to figure out exactly how we lay out this project has been a big headache. The hard part is making the decisions ! ! I guess we have fussed over it a lot. The project will need at least 16,000 feet of rail or 8,000 and more of track. Probably 9,000 feet of track laid. A couple of switches and into the barns. Started out as just a hobby diesel running around the property but now, what a headache. It was so much easier in late 1959 when I was 7 years old and laying out my HO track setup. A 4x8 sheet of plywood looked so big back then. Mom helped me a lot back then ! ! ! WHERE IS MOM NOW.

In the late 1950's into the very early 1960's, narrow gauge railroading was a big thing. I was fortunate enough to live in the last of agricultural era of Southern California. Back when Walter and Cordelia Knott tried to farm out near Corona Ca.. Got into a fight over water rates and then decided to try farming in an area called Buena Park because you could punch a water well and get clean shallow water. They were friends of my Grandparents so my earliest memories were going to their so called ghost town and hanging out with them. Got to spend a lot of time on and about their locomotive and narrow gauge layout. That made me stuck on steam ever since. He opened his railroad the same year I was born, 1952.

My Grandfather was a real outdoors type and desert rat, helped Walter drag in a lot of the buildings and such for Knott's ghost town.

In 1971 we were out scrounging old car parts behind the orange groves and found a small Case steam traction engine. Got it for free to haul away, was not frozen that bad and took back to our ranch. Managed to get it to run around the place, some one came and found us, offered us 2,500 for it. I grabbed it.

All of this makes me really old I guess.

Dan

A certain privately-owned 24" railroad owner in the state (who has an INCREDIBLE private steam railroad) had us reverse-engineer joint bars for his light rail, so he could get them forged. That was his sticker - the joint bars, and he kept breaking the cast ones. And the drilling was slightly oddball.

PM me for details, I know he made a bulk order and found an overseas manufacturer using our design.

I've seen the same thing happen with full-size comp bars, the cast ones are a lot cheaper, but are also far more likely to break.

Is anybody cutting splice bars for light section rail out of plate these days? It would seem that with CNC controlled laser or plasma cutting it would be cost effective, the trick would be getting the fishing surfaces ground to the correct angle. A fixture to hold groups of bars at the proper angle on a Blanchard grinder comes to mind.

Dan,
I am neww to posting here and I realize this is NOT the classifieds but, This may be of interest to you. I was doing what you are doing( hobby n.g. private rr) and am now trying to liquidate a lot of "stuff". So, to that end I have approx. 2 track miles of used 68lb GN rail with almost all the OTM (jewelry-tie plates splice bars some bolts spikes etc) . I live in NE Washington state. I am unsure what this is worth,especially to you, but would consider any offer you could make if you are so inclined. Let me know what you think!

Thanks,Carl

Just to clarify....

It's Kovalchick and they're located the town of Indiana, in Pennsylvania

They're the former owners of the East Broad Top Railroad