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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 7:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: B'more Maryland
p51 wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
I've never expected our charging to be free. I think it was only ever the early Tesla adopters who did.
I know lots of people who hadn't given it any thought. That Tesla owner's reaction has been very common in my experience. All of them have stopped, thought about it and then agreed that there's no way free charging will always be a thing.


Wild! I want to live in whatever world they inhabit. lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 8:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Why charging stations for railway museums?

Primarily because railway museums tend to be located in rural areas away from services. Having a charging station resolves a binary yes/no decision about whether to visit.

Also, maybe your members could use the charging station on work days?

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
p51 wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
I've never expected our charging to be free. I think it was only ever the early Tesla adopters who did.
I know lots of people who hadn't given it any thought. That Tesla owner's reaction has been very common in my experience. All of them have stopped, thought about it and then agreed that there's no way free charging will always be a thing.


I am certain that one can find such "dumb" people. Often, given the stupidity we hear from the mouths of even elected Congress-critters at times.

But in the circles *I* hang out in, every last EV owner:
1) expects to be paying something for recharging, be it through their home, a paid charging station, or the like;
2) is planning ahead and budgeting for the eventual replacement of their battery packs (you can even order replacements for some specific packs via RockAuto dot com now!); and
3) recognizes the fairness of the need to pay state fees annually to replace the gas taxes they are not paying in order to pay for the roads and bridges, and some even await the day when they will be forced to pay a mileage-based annual fee.

One early adapter who built his own EV conversion used to carry a letter and chart outlining the anticipated costs of additional electricity consumed by the car charging overnight through a 110-volt power source, which was something like $2.50 on average electric rates 25 years ago, and offered to pay whatever hotel or motel he was staying at an extra $5-10 for the convenience. Many just waved it off, some just added $5 or $10 to the bill, and a few even grilled him out of curiosity about the "cutting edge" tech and refused payment for participating in something so "cool."

But then again, I've heard of Volt/Tesla owners whose heads exploded with rage at the thought of having to pay extra for the privilege of using an EV on roads paid for by petroleum fuel taxes...............


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Thu Apr 07, 2022 1:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 06, 2022 11:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 12:32 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Altadena, CA
Interesting topic.

I’m on vacation with my family this week, traveling around Arizona in our electric car. We’ve been seeking out museums of all kinds wherever we go.

To a degree, our route and schedule is shaped by the availability of high speed chargers. Tomorrow, we’re leaving Prescott (amazingly, no high speed chargers) and deciding between two routes on our way back west toward California.

I’m fairly sure that everyone in my mostly non-foamer family would rather have stopped at railroad museums than some of the Marriott parking lots we’ve spent time in.

Regarding electricity used, we’re paying $10-$15 per charging session and most are taking about 25 minutes.

If it’s justifiable, I’d think that car charger companies would pay to lease parking lot space, so it shouldn’t require an outlay on the part of the host museum.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2686
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
WA state just passed a bill that will deny registration to all new non-electric vehicles (including 19-wheelers, one news outlet said) starting in 2030. This is a big state with massive distances between chargers and a lot of empty rural area to drive through. There's no plan I'm aware of to rectify that before this law takes effect. Several people I know in government think it's just 'feel good' stuff to satisfy the modern hippies in this state and will be overturned when the reality comes around as implausible at that point.
People who live in WA are also used to massive power outages in the winter times due to snow and wind storms. I've been in scenarios where it's been dark for an entire region for an undetermined amount of time. How are people supposed to get around then? At least when you know something like that is coming, you can gas up or fill a gas can ahead of time. Not so with an electric car.
I would expect to see this nationwide eventually, but from what I see, it's just realistic just yet.
KevinKuzma wrote:
To a degree, our route and schedule is shaped by the availability of high speed chargers.
This shows the reality of the situation. I've driven on roads where you went hours between conventional gas stations a few times in this country in the last decade or so. I have yet to see any plan that would support that you can get anywhere you wanna go with an electric car that you currently can with gas-powered one right now.
And the average house does not have the means to charge one other than very slowly.
We're rapidly coming up to a time when they'll be as reliable and convenient as a gas powered car and I think we should move to them for daily driver use when that happens, but I just don't see it at this moment in time.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 2:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
p51 wrote:
People who live in WA are also used to massive power outages in the winter times due to snow and wind storms. I've been in scenarios where it's been dark for an entire region for an undetermined amount of time. How are people supposed to get around then?

You strap a gas-powered generator to the roof of your EV.

Yes, I'm being facetious.......... or AM I?!?!?!?


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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 4:58 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
p51 wrote:
People who live in WA are also used to massive power outages in the winter times due to snow and wind storms. I've been in scenarios where it's been dark for an entire region for an undetermined amount of time. How are people supposed to get around then?

You strap a gas-powered generator to the roof of your EV.

Yes, I'm being facetious.......... or AM I?!?!?!?

Yeah, who knows?
That's the thing; you can store gas for a very long time until you need. Not so with electricity.
I still don't understand how long haul trucks and delivery vehicles can be practical with current electric vehicle technology.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Youngstown, OH
Lee,

You are acting as if those Washington politicians even care about the future problem they are creating. In my experience I have found that the most shortsighted people in existence are lawmakers, especially when it comes to anything relating to energy or so called "climate change".

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 6:50 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Rick Rowlands wrote:
You are acting as if those Washington politicians even care about the future problem they are creating. In my experience I have found that the most shortsighted people in existence are lawmakers, especially when it comes to anything relating to energy or so called "climate change".
Can't disagree with you any there. I'm quite familiar with the 'feel good nonsense' state in which I reside!

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Thu Apr 07, 2022 8:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1751
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
TAN: Unfortunately, where I live in SouthEast Pennsylvania, gravity gasoline dispensers have been replaced by "more reliable" electric gas pumps.
Back on topic: Do you want the kind of people who can afford an electric car to be buying tickets at your museum?


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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:00 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
JimBoylan wrote:
Do you want the kind of people who can afford an electric car to be buying tickets at your museum?

Their money spends just as well as anyone else’s. I have no problem relieving them of said money.

If some charging station company wanted to put a station on our property and maintain it on their dime, I think I’d welcome it. We have the power at our operating facility, just not in a convenient place for charging stations.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 7:51 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Just hand them a stinger off the trolley wire and let them figure it out.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 4:04 pm 
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Posts: 1079
Location: MA
Steamguy73 wrote:
Please be careful with those. There’s a reason they’re kinda out in the “middle of nowhere”.

Why?

Because they can be a fire hazard.

And gas pumps aren't? Your statement sounds pretty idiotic. A lot of charging stations are just fancy electrical sockets but then again it's not like we bring electricity into our house oh wait we do.


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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:14 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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Quote:
"And gas pumps aren't? Your statement sounds pretty idiotic. A lot of charging stations are just fancy electrical sockets but then again it's not like we bring electricity into our house oh wait we do.
"


Except that it isn't the same, at all. You're driving a chemical reaction backward, one with an appreciable fraction of the energy density of liquid motor fuel, inside a structure known to be sensitive to runaway heating in a number of ways without warning, using materials highly averse to water. In addition there is the issue of stranded charge, and the potential need for first responders to flip a vehicle on its side to cool the structure enough to get it "out".

None of these, in my opinion, are really showstopping reasons not to have chargers -- but the certainly affect an organization's legal safeguards against liability and where on a property the charging infrastructure would best be located.

I expect the 'real' trouble to come only in a few years, as batteries age and vehicle maintenance becomes more and more ignored and subject to cost- and corner-cutting.

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 Post subject: Re: Charging stations as a visitor attraction
PostPosted: Fri Apr 08, 2022 5:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: B'more Maryland
The Oregon law is a good example of the government using the levers it has available to achieve its goals.

In this case, Oregon wants to reduce the states consumption of petroleum based fuels and diversify the energy sources used for transformation in the state.

By adopting a law like this it forces public enterprise to find a way to figure it out.

Smart companies are going to figure out how to do that.

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