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 Post subject: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2022 5:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:21 am
Posts: 56
I thought this could be a good conversation piece. I know there’s several ways to “correctly” do a few very important things for routine maintenance on a steam locomotive. Maybe for some new members, or some people looking to get into the hobby there’s a few important things to teach them.

First things that come to mind are:
-Accepted practice on a routine water glass cleaning / replacement.
-Boiler Wash procedures and intervals on boilers that do not see 30 days of service in a calendar year.
-testing and recertification on safety valves for steam engines that do not see 30 days of service in a year


I know there are many different state regulations and FRA regulations. I am just curious what are generally the accepted practices for such things. I feel like this could be a productive thread.

If anyone thinks any other “routine” maintenance fits in with the basics, fee free to chime in and talk about it. New members and organizations may gain something from such a conversation.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:06 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 618
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:

There are two type of water glasses: tube type and reflex.

The tube type is a heavy wall glass tube rated for the pressure carried in the boiler (the manufacturer figures in the necessary factor of safety). These sometimes have a vertical red line in them to help identify the water level. These tend to erode at the bottom end due to the action of the water when the glass is blown down. Some jurisdictions require that these be replaced annually. Thick cylindrical gaskets at the top and bottom seal the tube. The tube should be positioned so the glass tube doesn't contact the metallic portion of the assemblage.

The reflex type too is heavy glass, but with prisms cast into it which clearly indicate the water level. The glass is designed to be held in place by the water glass body, two forgings or castings which are bolted or clamped together with gaskets sealing and protecting the glass from the metallic portions of the assemblage. Care must be taken to evenly tighten the bolts or clamps otherwise the glass will crack (think tightening the head on an automobile). The prisms must be facing the water side. The reflex type is much easier to "read" than the tube type. Eventually, the tops of the prisms at the lower end of the glass will be worn off by the action of the water when blowing down the glass making the glass difficult to "read". The reflex glass should be replaced periodically (like before it becomes difficult to "read", yes, I know that they are expensive, but in my opinion, if you can't afford to properly maintain a locomotive, you shouldn't be trying to operate one in the first place).

The condition of the water glass spindles which go into the water or steam space are just as important as the glass itself. I was one of the folks who did the "post mortem" on Gettysburg #1278 which had a firebox explosion (the National Transportation Safety Board report is available on line). The glass portion of the water glass was serviceable, but the lower spindle was 80% plugged with built up mineral deposits. Water glass spindles must (by law if under FRA jurisdiction) be cleaned at every 31 Service Day Inspection (or more frequently if conditions warrant). Cleaning the spindles require the disassembly of the water glass valves and (depending on the design of the water glass) the water glass body itself. The purpose is to clean out the passages so there are no restrictions to the flow of water which can give a false reading in the glass. To accomplish this, a rod, reamer or drill sized to closely fit the passage is used. This is also a good time to grind in the water glass valves so they don't leak. A water glass cannot be properly blown down with leaking valves. By law (if under FRA Jurisdiction) each water glass must be blown down as part of the daily inspection.

Remember: 49 CFR, Part 230 are MINIMUM standards for inspecting a steam locomotive. If your operation isn't under FRA jurisdiction, you would be well advised to follow those standards anyway, they are industry standards.

Be well, stay safe,

J.David


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 8:18 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2492
Becky Morgan was promoting the idea of a 'manual of best practices' here a while ago. Perhaps it's time to dust off the effort. Here is a fine section of that manual...

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R.M.Ellsworth


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 10:54 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:21 am
Posts: 56
J. David,

Very good! It makes me wonder how many organizations “fly under the radar” because they only operate a few days a year. Obviously there’s a ton of people here that know these answers. But maybe some people are too afraid to ask. In light of other things happening in the industry I believe it may be a good time to open conversation of the basics.

I believe there should almost be a generalized manual that walks through step by step how to do things. A “Steam Locomotive Maintenance for Dummies” if you will. Something very descriptive, with pictures and definitions. Maybe the people here wouldn’t care, but for someone wanting the play with steam locomotives someday, it could be a start.

Makes me curious how different steam tractors are maintained as opposed to locomotives.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 11:57 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
Something that needs to be drilled into everyone's heads is the importance of correct water treatment. Preventing internal corrosion must be listed in everyone's list of priorities.

Another important recommended practice is to have spare parts on hand. What are the items most likely to fail that could put you out of operation? How big is your pipe fitting collection? Do you have spare schedule 80 nipples? Valves? Fittings? I have seen some active steam locomotives that practically have no spare parts and thus when something breaks they are stranded and scrambling to fix it.

I am rather fanatical about having spares on hand. We have a larger selection of pipe fittings here than many hardware stores. Bolts and nuts too. I occasionally peruse ebay looking for new old stock class 300 globe valves. I just want to have them here for when we need them. It is always better to be proactive instead of reactive.

The single most important component is a dedicated CMO who is not only competent but has a passion for the safe and successful operation of the steam locomotives in his/her care. The second most important component is a leadership who provides the resources that said CMO needs to maintain the locomotives.

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From the desk of Rick Rowlands
inside Conrail caboose 21747


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 242
Back to the Basics is important. How about Tricks of the Trade? Safety First.

Eons ago when I started firing my Old Man (who retired with 44 years on the CPR) taught me many things about steam railroading. He was big on safety. Something I came to being aware of and earned a reputation for safety.

I was taught how to replace a water glass AND how to properly prove its reading.
Perhaps a laminated card hung on the glass at least for new fireman would help.

Water Glass check.

1. Open drain valve.
2. Close bottom cock allowing top mountain to blow down out.
3. Close top cock.
4. Slowly open top cock.
5. Close drain Valve.


I cannot tell you how many times I have been in the cab and seen a fireman give one valve a quick turn to clear the glass momentarily and then move away.

An empty glass and a full glass look very much the same. You have to be able to see water moving up and down in the glass.

Changing a water glass.

I was taught how to insert and fit a new glass.

Close top and bottom valves.
Remove glass and discard. Clear any broken pieces with tool.
Push new glass firmly upwards.

Push it down tight to the bottom AND then turn it a partial turn UPWARDS so as to relieve the stress against the washer caused by vibration against the nut.

Safety First, Last and Always. (My slogan).


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 6:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
.


Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2022 9:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:21 am
Posts: 56
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Giving poor advice can be worse than giving none at all, and open you to liability. Please proofread your work!

It’s like having someone explain to you how to make a pb&j sandwich. A lot can be inferred but unless we know a particular persons background, it would be hard to hit every step perfectly.

That being said there are some very important steps to note, on each of the basic things about steam railroading.

I’ve talked to different organizations who do things their way because “that’s how they’ve always done it.” That tribal knowledge thing is very very dangerous.

I was worried about starting this thread because it seems sometimes certain people don’t want to “share their secrets” or help out a newbie.

Like I said, there are enough volunteer organizations out there, it makes one wonder if they are all doing things the safest way possible. Im all for a procedural manual on the basics for steam railroading…

Thanks all!


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2022 10:48 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 242
Kelly Anderson wrote:
R.L.Kennedy wrote:
Water Glass check.

1. Open drain valve.
2. Close bottom cock allowing top mountain to blow down out.
3. Close top cock.
4. Slowly open top cock.
5. Close drain Valve.
Might want to reopen the bottom valve at some point...

Giving poor advice can be worse than giving none at all, and open you to liability. Please proofread your work!



Well, if I were standing there doing it I certainly would. It has ben a long time.

I am old and sometimes I forget the obvious because it IS!

6. Reopen bottom cock.


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 Post subject: Re: Back to the Basics
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2022 12:55 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:26 pm
Posts: 258
As a collector of manuals, handbooks, text books etc. for stationary and locomotive engineering, I will say that almost half of them do not give detailed instructions on how to blow down a sight glass. And I was never shown the proper way in a boiler house or in a locomotive cab. The need to have comprehensive manual is evident, but is anyone going to take on the legal liability.

Tom Hamilton


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