The facts are the facts even when they refute your position. If you choose to ignore the HUGE facts in favor of getting the shots ( approx. 93% of ALL the deaths from Covid ( in the USA) have been people that were unvaccinated. That percentage has recently grown further in that in the 2 weeks ended on April 15th. 2022 96.7 % of the 15,500 Covid deaths were people unvaccinated.

Let's be brutally frank about this. To care for someone on a ventilator in the ICU costs a fortune. Why should the 85% who have followed the facts and gotten the shots pay for the ignorant 15% who want to listen to the nonsense dished out each night on the FNC, refuse to get protected and cost the rest of us a pile of money when it's totally avoidable.

Seems to me it's not unreasonable to insist that those who have chosen to remain fertile targets for Covid pay their fair share when it finds them??

To correct a couple minor things in Supes posting above. I am not aging...I've gotten there...I'm now properly addressed as aged. As the old saying goes...life's sweetest revenge is to out live your enemies.....mostly there.

Of course I own a bunch of health care stocks and have since the mid 1980's. America's convoluted health care setup is such that these companies are in the room each month when the hefty rewards are issued making them nearly risk free money makers.

Thanks, Ross Rowland

So are you bragging that you make money off of the failed healthcare system in America. That by denying medical necessity as prescribed by a doctor, you are in fact personally rewarded by the suffering and exploitation of others?

I think masks and vaccination are personal choice. I chose to be vaccinated, I chose the method I preferred by the science as I saw and interpreted it, so for me Janssen was correct. I could have easily and earlier taken moderna or Pfizer, but decided against it as my risk factor was low and I was concerned over the side effects particularly after seeing host nation military members die from astra zeneca in fair numbers.

I discount much of the use of masks other than limited containment of saliva and mucal secretions. It does not stop aerolizeed viral particles, with the exception of a proper fitted respirators of n95 or p100 style. I was fit tested yearly at a class 1 and also hazmat by rail response trained with the senntenial program. Masks were some what effective indoors but completely ludicrous and a waste outside. But honestly it's personal choice. I choose to not do so as much as legally possible. Also many are discounting the effects on children and the disabled. I'm hard if hearing I read lips to hear better. I have to get people in masks to repeat themselves a lot, it's embarrassing. It's completely counter to childhood development, most children are developmentally delayed by 2 years. It's well documented, my wife really took the prize to keep our child to the correct level of development but it has been hard for proper social development. I mean I had a two year old turning three who spent 52 days restricted to a 30 Sq meter room, no outside activities, nothing but being inside in a small place for 52 days straight. The leaders who chose these tyrannical restrictions that have caused these developmental issues are destroying a generation silently and some really behind them cheering it on, for reasons I don't know, perhaps some self entitled mentality that the chance that they might get sick allows an entire generation to be delayed and destroyed...

This thread really points out how divided this nation is. And Covid has driven the wedge even deeper. One side simply wants to make up their own mind. They want to hear both sides of the issue. They don't want to be simply dictated to. The other side believes whatever the elite/experts tell them. And they want any conflicting information censored. What's worse is that they have been convinced that whoever isn't doing what the elite/experts say, are evil and are endangering everyone else and can't be tolerated. This pattern will be repeated with other serious issues.

I would suggest rather that while one "side" feels it's their right and liberty to protect themselves and their family as they see fit, while the other feels that their efforts to protect themselves must, by necessity, include imposing any and all efforts to contain the virus--as specious as some of them may be--on the collective society to assuage their own personal fears.

The hostility from the first group is coming from several aspects:
1) repeated broken promises and paucity of "return on investment (remember "two weeks to flatten the curve"?);
2) a recognition that the latter group is seeking (while not admitting it) permanent revocation of personal and legal liberties by stealth (even the Orwellian-named "PATRIOT Act" at least had a damned expiration date!).

The recent judicial overturn of the mask mandate was based on constitutional grounds--basically, according to the decision as written, the CDC and the TSA don't have the vested authority to impose such requirements nationwide absent Federal legislative action. The federal Public Health Service Act of 1944, used to justify the CDC's actions, was brought to us by the same administration that saw most of its "signature" acts of economic reform legislation overturned by the Supreme Court, causing FDR to scheme to "pack" the Court in his favor:

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/ ... -78497994/

I have read some rather wonky debates over the years as to whether the Public Health Service Act, as written, would survive a finely-tuned Supreme Court challenge now, particularly during the rancorous "Obamacare" challenges.

BACK TO RAIL PRESERVATION:
What does this s*** have to do with us?

1) When (at this rate probably not "if") government authorities come to you demanding restrictions, changes, or the like to your operation, you are most likely obligated for the sake of your operation/mission to demand "why?" and "how long will this last?"

(A pandemic, if indeed we're still calling it that, is among the worst-case scenarios. Ditto, say, a drought raising wildfire risk and steam loco use. I hope none of us are seeking an excuse to avoid boiler code or track condition oversight--save for a certain bloke that keeps getting brought up her who seemingly hopes to claim that being "a railroad" exempts him from various manner of local laws......)

2) how do you deftly navigate the minefield of public discourse when faced with telling people that, for example, they may have to wear masks (or whatever "Kabuki theatre" they come up with next time) on an open gondola/flat because it's still a "train" or "mode of transport"?

Well folks, ...

We are actually talking about trains.

For many decades, the Federal Government has elected to regulate various aspects of the railroad industry. Up until the recent passage of the I.C.C.T.A. (a.k.a the Interstate Commerce Commission Termination Act of 1995), the various States used to also regulate the railroads within their boundaries.

The mask mandate, issued by the Federal Government during the alleged "pandemic" in order to combat the COVID 19 / Chinese Wuhan man-made virus, is the latest example of the Federal Government's regulation of our nation's railroads. This debate has happened before. It will likely continue into the future. The current topic of debate is likely one of the Federal Government's more egregious attempts at regulating the industry.

What makes this debate a bit different than previous debates is the obvious political motivations associated with this mandate.

Sad, but true.....

In your trained mind, what exactly are the "obvious political motivations" behind the mandate?

OR:
One side goes with what peer-reviewed scientific data shows them, across the entire spectrum of science and medical professionals who have seen such things in the past. They simply don't want to be placed in harm by those who pick and chose what they consider 'facts' by doing internet 'research' (which much of the time is just Googling that which they already want to be the case), and ignoring everything else that doesn't support the "It's all made up" fallacy.
Meanwhile the other side so desperately wants everything to be a government conspiracy, they dismiss anything that doesn't support that goal, even though pretty much everyone in the medical field has done everything shy of breaking out crayons on a bulletin board to explain the issue. And they couldn't care less who they get sick, because they feel they have the freedom to infect others.
All that said, the very idea that either side of this debate is alone in being on a high horse and talking down to the other side is laughable. Each side of this is guilty of it, and each equally feel their viewpoint alone is the only one that should be allowed to exist.
The only difference is that one side has a lot of data that has been checked and re-checked over and over to back them up...
But we're in a world where it's easy (and in many cases encouraged) to insulate yourself from all views other than whatever you prefer.
And this is what you're left with, where this thread has sought bottom and then started digging.

All of the people arguing about this for the last 5 or so pages need to pull their heads out of their asses and look at what is being accomplished here. NOTHING. Except for discrediting themselves and further contributing to the downhill slide of this site's reputation. The back and forth bickering, by both sides, going on here by once respected preservationists, operators and the like is so disgusting and childish that it makes me sick. Keep it up. Drive it further into the rocks for the whole web to see. Spread the toxin until it is dead and burried. Those who are the most vocal and opinionated about this issue are NOT going to change their minds unless it is on their own. Those who don't see that are either ignorant, stupid or just have to be the loudest voice in the room.
Good luck
Eric W Rice

On one side you have people who are more willing to listen to experts, but unfortunately many of these people are also too loyal to some so called “experts”, treating their word as gospel. On the other side it’s people who are more willing to listen to a variety of courses to make up their mind, but some of those refuse to accept certain logic in scenarios.

Both have their own motives and ideas and neither are entirely wrong or right.

Now for the love of god bitch about paint colors or something instead of this.

The really sad part is that you're seeing it everywhere. I can't think of a single forum (none of which have anything to do with anything you'd associate medical issues with other than elderly participant's aches and pains from age) where you're not seeing this.
A pal of mine who's into collecting stamps sent me a link on a forum devoted to that which has thread argument on this subject that is over ten times as long (and far sillier).
I fully agree that it's all silly from each direction.

Amen. But good luck getting anyone to see that.