While 2003 has been one of the worst years for railroad restoration, (B & O, The Viaduct, Wilmington and Western and the Washington Trolley Museum), it has actually been a good year for some Canadian Steam Locomotives in Pennsylvania.

I was at the Strasburg Rail Road today, and I took the 12:00 Shop Tour. In the back shop was 89's tender. The gold letters and striping had been painted over, and a beautiful Canadian National Lodo was in their place. It was even slanted to the left! I asked the tour guide, who is actually one of the machinists there why was this done. He said a group had paid the Strasburg a fair sum of money to turn back the clock on 89, give it a true Canadian National appearance, and create a special freight train for private photo ops. Sure enough, in the engine house was 89, and it;s headlight had been mounted in the center of the smokebox, a backplate for a SQUARE number plate was affixed to it, (although no Canadian National number plate was there yet), and the double sided number boards were in place at rhe top of the smokebox, (albeit without the numbers in place yet). The cab numbers and stiping had also been painted over, but they were blank when I saw them. The tour guide told me he BELIEVED that the number was still going to be 89 (89 used to have 2 or 3 different numbers early in it's career)but that the font of the numbers were going to be different, and there will be no striping. It could be, that the original metal cab numbers, much like 31's, that 89 had until it's 1979-1987 rebuild, will be re-attached to the cab! That last part is only speculation on my part. The tour guide told me that OFFICIALLY the change was for the photo op, but he believed that there was a very good chance that 89 would retain this appearance for at least a little while. He said, that the initial reaction has been good, and that perhaps the powers that be will decide to keep it. He said if the public likes it, and the bosses like it, it will stay. If not, it won't. He did say that some "people" there (he didn't specify if this meant officers or employees, want all of the equipment to be lettered Strasburg. This includes the handful of passenger cars that while painted in Strasburg Rail Road colors, have the names of their original railroads on them. But I took this to mean that thes "People" are in the minority.

Myself, I believe that this appearance will proably be around for at least the rest of the year, if not all of the 2004 tourist season. The Strasburg and the Wilmington and Western have both done "Throwback" photo ops before, Strasburg with 475, and the Wilmington and Western with 98. Each of these times, the locomotives in question received magnetic signs, specially designed to cover over the "New" road name. So that all the crew had to do to change it pack was simply remove the magnetic sign. Even though the Wilmington and Western did make some cosmetic changes to 98 in 1998, I have to believe that if the powers that be at Strasburg, didn't want to leave 89 in the "Throwback" appearance for at least a little while, they would not have gone on with such detailed and harder to reverse work. I could be wrong, but I hope not. I love the look of the centered headlight and number boards like on 31. And frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing 31, (or 7312) completely lettered for the Canadian National, 90 lettered for the Great Western, and 475 lettered for the Norfolk and Western. That's just me, but for history's sake I would love it.

I started this thread, by stating how good it was for Canadian steam. Let us not for get the PARTIAL renumbering of 31 to be 7312, (My tour gude said he had no idea if that is ever going to become complete or not) and the long anticipated rebuilding of Middletown and Hummelstown 91. Oh How I would love to see the Ohio Central and the Wilmington and Western to SOMEDAY rebuild #'s 96 and 92 respectfully. Both both of those railroads have much greater priorities now.

Long Live Canadian Steam!!!!!

Paul

plc95@yahoo.com

With many of the remaining CN & CP steam locomotives in the US, it's nice to see some of the lines, like Steamtown, who ahve returned the engines to thier original CN & CP appearance help to keep part of our canadian railway heritage alive. I have been to Strasburg many times, and enjoyed it, and i applaude any effort to return the engine back to it's Canadian appearance.... If only more museums would return engines back to thier original railway look, more of North America's Railway history would be preserved.

Ken Jones
Niagara Falls Railway Museum
Operations - Trillium Railway - ST&ER

> While 2003 has been one of the worst years
> for railroad restoration, (B & O, The
> Viaduct, Wilmington and Western and the
> Washington Trolley Museum), it has actually
> been a good year for some Canadian Steam
> Locomotives in Pennsylvania.

> I was at the Strasburg Rail Road today, and
> I took the 12:00 Shop Tour. In the back shop
> was 89's tender. The gold letters and
> striping had been painted over, and a
> beautiful Canadian National Lodo was in
> their place. It was even slanted to the
> left! I asked the tour guide, who is
> actually one of the machinists there why was
> this done. He said a group had paid the
> Strasburg a fair sum of money to turn back
> the clock on 89, give it a true Canadian
> National appearance, and create a special
> freight train for private photo ops. Sure
> enough, in the engine house was 89, and it;s
> headlight had been mounted in the center of
> the smokebox, a backplate for a SQUARE
> number plate was affixed to it, (although no
> Canadian National number plate was there
> yet), and the double sided number boards
> were in place at rhe top of the smokebox,
> (albeit without the numbers in place yet).
> The cab numbers and stiping had also been
> painted over, but they were blank when I saw
> them. The tour guide told me he BELIEVED
> that the number was still going to be 89 (89
> used to have 2 or 3 different numbers early
> in it's career)but that the font of the
> numbers were going to be different, and
> there will be no striping. It could be, that
> the original metal cab numbers, much like
> 31's, that 89 had until it's 1979-1987
> rebuild, will be re-attached to the cab!
> That last part is only speculation on my
> part. The tour guide told me that OFFICIALLY
> the change was for the photo op, but he
> believed that there was a very good chance
> that 89 would retain this appearance for at
> least a little while. He said, that the
> initial reaction has been good, and that
> perhaps the powers that be will decide to
> keep it. He said if the public likes it, and
> the bosses like it, it will stay. If not, it
> won't. He did say that some
> "people" there (he didn't specify
> if this meant officers or employees, want
> all of the equipment to be lettered
> Strasburg. This includes the handful of
> passenger cars that while painted in
> Strasburg Rail Road colors, have the names
> of their original railroads on them. But I
> took this to mean that thes
> "People" are in the minority.

> Myself, I believe that this appearance will
> proably be around for at least the rest of
> the year, if not all of the 2004 tourist
> season. The Strasburg and the Wilmington and
> Western have both done "Throwback"
> photo ops before, Strasburg with 475, and
> the Wilmington and Western with 98. Each of
> these times, the locomotives in question
> received magnetic signs, specially designed
> to cover over the "New" road name.
> So that all the crew had to do to change it
> pack was simply remove the magnetic sign.
> Even though the Wilmington and Western did
> make some cosmetic changes to 98 in 1998, I
> have to believe that if the powers that be
> at Strasburg, didn't want to leave 89 in the
> "Throwback" appearance for at
> least a little while, they would not have
> gone on with such detailed and harder to
> reverse work. I could be wrong, but I hope
> not. I love the look of the centered
> headlight and number boards like on 31. And
> frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing 31, (or
> 7312) completely lettered for the Canadian
> National, 90 lettered for the Great Western,
> and 475 lettered for the Norfolk and
> Western. That's just me, but for history's
> sake I would love it.

> I started this thread, by stating how good
> it was for Canadian steam. Let us not for
> get the PARTIAL renumbering of 31 to be
> 7312, (My tour gude said he had no idea if
> that is ever going to become complete or
> not) and the long anticipated rebuilding of
> Middletown and Hummelstown 91. Oh How I
> would love to see the Ohio Central and the
> Wilmington and Western to SOMEDAY rebuild
> #'s 96 and 92 respectfully. Both both of
> those railroads have much greater priorities
> now.

> Long Live Canadian Steam!!!!!

> Paul


Niagara Falls Railway Museum
digitekfx@kwic.com

I was over at the railroad and looked in the shop and saw 89 in there.At first quick glance at the top it looked like 31 but realized it was 89.I asked a trainman but he wasn't 100% sure as to the date this would take place.

steamtrain90@aol.com

that the date not be posted here, please.

While this is not a "secret" event, it is private: 30 or so people have each contributed a substantial sum (several hundred dollars) towards the cosmetic changes and the photo freight. I ask that you respect that commitment.

No. 89 will remain in CNR livery for "a couple of years" according to the Strasburg. There will be many opportunities to see 89 later this season, and in 2004. For those of you who would like to see 89 on a freight train, the folks at Strasburg are VERY receptive to private charters and wonderful to work with, so look for other events during that time.

And if you are interested in attending (read that writing a large check), we can accomodate a couple more paying participants. Feel free to email me and I will provide you details.

JAC

This begs a question that I'm fighting with down here in South Carolina. We've got a few individuals who want to turn our museum into a tourist railroad. They want the excursion train painted in a consistent paint scheme, they want our steam engine (on static display for the forseeable future) lettered for the Museum instead of its original owner, etc.

Now, I have no problem with tourist railroads whatsoever, so long as that's what they claim to be. Wilmington & Western is an excellent example of a not-for-profit tourist railroad. They make no claims of being a museum. If they want to paint the 98 for the W&W, there is absolutely no reason they shouldn't. Same goes for Strasburg. They're a for-profit railroad, so it makes sense to have their stuff lettered "Strasburg." The museum is that big building across the street.

As soon as you put the word "museum" in your name, however, I believe that you accept a responsibility to live up to that word's definition. That means, to me, that in order to be a serious museum, your equipment should be painted and lettered in a historically accurate manner.

In the case of equipment that was purchased for operating reasons, like our CN coaches, I can make an exception. I don't care how those things are painted, so long as the brakes work and they carry passengers. I've made this point over and over, but the tourist railroad people seem to think we need a "consistent image" and want to paint our Southern Railway diner in a non-historic scheme just because we use it in the excursion train.

What do y'all think? What should the focus of an operating museum be? Please limit this to operating museums, static museums are a totally different animal.

The South Carolina Railroad Museum
mconrad@copuzone.net

> What do y'all think? What should the focus
> of an operating museum be? Please limit this
> to operating museums, static museums are a
> totally different animal.

I would suggest looking at this question in light of your Collections Management Policy. (This assumes you have a written collections management policy, of course... If not, well, there's Step 1 for you!) ARM's Recommend Procedures include the following:

"3. Artifact and equipment categories by use may also be developed to reflect the museum's operational needs and the responsibility to preserve the collections for the public and for future generations. For example, as operation of historic rail vehicles is a primary interpretive experience at many railway museums, vehicles are often categorized in terms of their intended use, such as:
a. Accepted for display in the permanent collection
b. Accepted for operation/use in the permanent collection
c. Accepted for trade
d. Kept for consumption/disposal
e. On short- or long-term loan or lease
f. Kept in storage and/or for study

Items in category A and B--that is to say, anything accessioned into the permanent collection--should be retained in an historically accurate configuration and appearence. Items in the use collection outside the permanent collection you should feel free to paint or modify to suit the intended use--though I admit to a personal preference for keeping everything accurate.

Steamtown does this nicely with their CNJ and Lackawaana coaches pulled by their Candadian power.



eledbetter@rypn.org

They want the excursion
> train painted in a consistent paint scheme,
> they want our steam engine (on static
> display for the forseeable future) lettered
> for the Museum instead of its original
> owner, etc.

I have a pan and scan photo of Frisco 1630 pulling a train of several different coaches at Illinois Ry Museum. The consist is lettered correctly following Museum practice. The average visitor to my office does not seem to notice that the baggage car is from Burlington, combine from C&NW, diner from L&N and coaches from Lackawanna. They know it is a steam train.

National Capital Trolley Museum

I have been away and did not respond earlier, so here are some thoughts.

A museum should paint a car historically. you get to pick which period and all the cars do not have to be the same period.

At the Western Railway Museum we have a trailer 1020 that is painted for the beginning of its life on the O,A &E, a sister car that is going to be restored as a Sacramento-San Francisco Railway 1019 and a wood combine that is and will be Sacramento Northern 1005. All different historical periods of the same tracks.

If a railroad museum also has a tourist train then maybe they paint it *** Southern or what ever. But they loose the chance to tell the story of that car. And that can be a real loss.

Even if the car is a de-motored Lackawanna commuter car with bus seats in it the history is lost, and that is not good.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov