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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
J.T.C wrote:
Chris Webster wrote:

Yes, but also consider what happened from a human factors perspective. Perhaps the lesson is don't put a switch or other device that requires extra crew vigilance at a point where the crew is expected to be waving at and looking out for passengers on the adjacent track.



I think running the train in a safe manner trumps smiling and waving to the crowd. I do believe that complacency played a major part in this. It happens even to the best of us. Class Ones will periodically test their crews in the wild with a banner test. Could this not be the worst things for us in the preservation field to do also?

Bingo. A. The switch didn’t appear overnight. And where else would you put it? B. I wouldn’t think the crew is “expected” to be waving at anyone while operating.

Our guys have seen the video. I’m sure it’s a lesson that had an impact.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2732
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Chris Webster wrote:
Kelly Anderson wrote:
I'm told and I'm glad no one was hurt.

That is good news.

The video appears to show two crew members on the engineer's side of the cab, both of who are waving at the coaches on the adjacent track. My impression is that waving at and looking out for passengers on the adjacent track is standard practice at most tourist railroads that run around at the end of their runs.

wilkinsd wrote:
Folks, this is a good training aid for your various railroads.


Yes, but also consider what happened from a human factors perspective. Perhaps the lesson is don't put a switch or other device that requires extra crew vigilance at a point where the crew is expected to be waving at and looking out for passengers on the adjacent track.


Waiving, even if there is an internal rule requiring it, does not trump the requirement tha the crew in the cab should be checking points on all turnouts they travel over and generally be watching what direction they are traveling.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:24 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2696
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Watch, the headlight comes off the smokebox lid and lands between the tracks on the excavator. You gotta watch this closely a few times to see it:
https://youtu.be/AVJ1IfjCKLo
475 didn't move very far past that switch before hitting the excavator.
There's a long list of things that went wrong here, no question. The engineer isn't 100% to blame but things aren't going to be good for him. People have been blacklisted from the throttle in the past for far less than this.
Does anyone know if this was the first run of the day? I'm still wondering how/why this switch was open. If that were the railroad I run on, we'd have had a padlock on that switch stand, which might to me suggest it was left that way the previous evening?

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Last edited by p51 on Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 1043
Location: NJ
I don't think the 'headlight ad' was an appropriate response here. As was previously mentioned, that boom must have come fairly close to the front tube sheet. If that tube sheet had been penetrated, steam and hot water would have everywhere; back through the tubes and into the firebox and cab. The engine crew would at best have been injured. That steam and water might have also traveled over to the coaches as well. So far, it looks like the proverbial bullet was dodged today.


Last edited by EDM on Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
First run, 11 am departing.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:36 pm
Posts: 120
p51 wrote:
The engineer isn't 100% to blame but things aren't going to be good for him for the future. People have been blacklisted from the throttle in the past for far less than this.


Straight from the GCOR:

"6.27 Movement at Restricted Speed
When required to move at restricted speed, movement must be made at a speed that allows stopping within
half the range of vision short of:
• Train.
• Engine.
• Railroad car.
• Men or equipment fouling the track.
• Stop signal.
or
• Derail or switch lined improperly.
When a train or engine is required to move at restricted speed, the crew must keep a lookout for broken rail
and not exceed 20 MPH.
Comply with these requirements until the leading wheels reach a point where movement at restricted speed is no longer required."

I'm sure NORAC has a similar rule. The simple fact of the matter is that while the engineer isn't responsible for the switch being left lined for the spur, they are responsible for not verifying the position of the switch. This dude is in deep shit. There's been a rash of restricted speed violations over the last few weeks in the railroad industry as a whole, and the word from the FRA gurus is that they're pissed off about it, and they're cracking down on violations.

My best advice for this engineer is to leave his keys in the seat, grab his grip, take a hike, and forget about ever having a railroad job ever again.


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
Looks like the boom hit the blast pipe/petticoat after punching in the smoke box front and didn’t penetrate any further. They were running a clean stack until the jolt blew some soot out the stack on an exhaust stroke.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:18 am
Posts: 281
If Strasburg uses GCOR, movement would likely fall under 6.28, not 6.27. I doubt that the runaround track is considered Main Track.


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:47 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Posts: 363
Man, it's been an exciting time down in the ol' Commonwealth. R&N had a fire truck run a grade crossing right in front of #2102 last weekend, the Colebrookdale had a garbage truck strike their bridge (just got a call and a refund for my trip on Friday), this incident.


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
Jeff Terry wrote:
If Strasburg uses GCOR, movement would likely fall under 6.28, not 6.27. I doubt that the runaround track is considered Main Track.

General FYI: 6.28 says the same thing with the addition of siding rules.

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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 7:05 am
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Location: Cambridgeshire, England.
Quote:
You can just barely hear someone, fireman I'm guessing, shouting what sounds like "Look out, look out" right before impact.


Those shouts were from passengers in the carriages that the loco was running-round.


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 11:51 am
Posts: 7
Some more video has made its way to YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OMIlQauLRB8


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2701
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
May I suggest that everyone refrain from being too critical as if they're being honest with you anyone who has any substantial time running will tell you that yes, they've had a few close calls that came VERY close to ending poorly but didn't by the skin of their teeth.

Gratefully this one did not cause any injuries to crew and the damaged equipment will get repaired and everyone will learn a lesson.

Strasburg is a class act in every respect and they will use this to become even better.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3010
Most of my thoughts have already been mentioned. Yes, whoever forget to line the switch has some blame, but presumably this is yard limits. That means the engineer will likely be found at fault, with the other factors contributing.

I don't think restricted speed comes into play though. Why not? Because it would appear that the speed was within the range of being able to stop in 1/2 the distance. If that is correct, then the speed wasn't a factor.

Failure to properly observe the position of the switch would appear to be the cause, not speed. Had they done so in a timely manner, they would have stopped, lined the switch, chewed out whoever didn't line it later and we'd all be talking about something else.

What was the reason for that? Well, we don't know, it hasn't been investigated. However, distraction is certainly a strong possibility. If waving to the passengers ends up being an issue causing distraction, they may need to use a different approach for that. Letting the theatrics distract from operation is an issue.

When we did Polar Express, we had two "Conductors", all dressed up in the full regalia. They spent the trip talking to the passengers and posing with the kids. While they were trained as conductors, they were actors on this run. The real conductor was in the shadows, paying full attention to the operation of the train. I always thought that was a very good approach. Maybe a crew member could be assigned as "greeter" to wave as they go by, while the crew keeps their eyes on the track.


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 Post subject: Re: Strasburg Railroad 475 Collides With Excavator
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2022 3:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3010
co614 wrote:
May I suggest that everyone refrain from being too critical as if they're being honest with you anyone who has any substantial time running will tell you that yes, they've had a few close calls that came VERY close to ending poorly but didn't by the skin of their teeth.

Gratefully this one did not cause any injuries to crew and the damaged equipment will get repaired and everyone will learn a lesson.

Strasburg is a class act in every respect and they will use this to become even better.

Ross Rowland


I totally agree. In a FB discussion a lot of people are saying they can't believe the engineer missed that, and I'm over there saying "Got any idea how often this happens?"


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