I don't think it is a 'fabrication' so much as it's risk minimization on the part of an organization that doesn't care about 'preservation' but wants to avoid even the least chance of problems 'on their watch'.

I do wonder whether someone outside the Danbury museum could influence either the redevelopment management company or the new site owners to facilitate at least moving the equipment out of present danger.

What was the "chain of custody" of the donated S locomotive between its donation and the time Danbury came to own it?

The property owners are willing to let the locomotives be moved out of the way of the construction that needs to happen where they are for temporary storage... So they just need to pay $250,000 for the move on top of what they need to pay to transport them already.

Sounds like somebody has quite the axe to grind, disgruntled former employee?

I hope the people at the DRM had an attorney reivew the terms of the gas line owner's easement. They may not want DRM to roll the locos on track over the buried line but that does not necessarily mean they have the right to stop them. Even if they do have the right to control surface movement over the pipeline, who has the burden of proof regarding assertion of potential damage to the pipeline?

I don’t think this pipeline thing has been fleshed out quite yet. How did the equipment get into that site? Over the pipeline? Would’ve had to. Did it magically float in? Don’t think so. How many cars and locomotives ran over that pipeline over the years? Quite a few I’ll bet. Suddenly it’s not safe to do so? Hmmmm….

At thirty feet down and with the load distribution through the ground itself as well as the distribution via the track structure, I’d think that pipeline wouldn’t have any idea that a locomotive just crossed above it. I think it may have been a canned response from the pipeline owner and possibly wasn’t really looked at if at all.

IMHO, of course. I could be proven wrong.

This is a matter of people who don't understand and/care about the historic value of what they see as simply"old, rusty, trains" and other people who are just obstructing because they can. Allowing the four locomotive to deteriorate over time is the fault of the title holders, and acting before total deterioration would have made it a non-issue. Furthermore, why some old rusty trains are worthy of saving and the others are not, is something the antagonists just don't "get". A very well planned defense of the equipment, including a Lionel model of the "S" unit, and advertisements heralding the new service into GCT should be mounted. Public ignorance is the enemy. Why the equipment should be saved and showing that preservation benefits everyone is your best tool. Newspapers, television, radio, are you friends in meeting the objective. Don't vilify the opposition, but show why scrapping will be a total loss to history, would be my suggested approach.

They’re done for. Asking for donations isn’t enough, sadly, and the situation has become critical.

Hardly. Long time Danbury resident with eyes. Not everyone in the area is blind to your operation.

In the oil drilling industry they frequently haul diesel power units nearly as heavy as the weight that these locomotives could be trimmed to (by removing their trucks, fuel tanks, and pilot end plates). The oil drilling power skid units have angled "ski" ends, and a flat base plate, with a cable trunion at each corner, and are hauled along the ground by a bulldozer.

Maybe the railroad preservation people should look to the oil drilling folks for some ideas.

PC

A few years ago, a fellow in Colorado or maybe New Mexico moved a locomotive to a new display site in a community by loading it onto a large steel plate and then hauled it through town with a surplus military tank recovery tractor. I imagine it slid right over sewer and water lines.

I don't know the situation fully here. I also don't know the quality of the ground (will the ground freeze solid anytime soon?), but if it may help:

I have seen an image of several bulldozers (likely D-9 Caterpillars) pulling together with chains a large multi-story steel structure (like a very large drilling rig) over dirt. Unfortunately, I can't seem to locate that picture on the Internet.

At any rate, could a panel of track be secured to a "sled" of steel plate near the locomotive and then roll the locomotive onto the track that is on the "sled". Some appropriate chains/cables would likely need to be applied to keep the locomotive secure from rolling and from tipping over. Disconnect the rails (presumably jointed) and drag the locomotive and the panel(s) of track to the desired location to await transfer to a trailer?

Possibly a related question: is the museum willing to give up ownership to another organization (presuming that there is an organization with funds/equipment) and is there enough time left if funds are the problem?

From the other posts, it does seem like the situation hasn't become desperate enough for contractors, developer, etc. to be willing to find solutions. Naturally, no private business/utility/etc. wants to sign up for risk or costs that they don't have to take on until they don't have another choice.

Here's what's apparently the problem:

The contractors, developers, pipeline owner, etc. have NO motivation to find "solutions" aside from "get your junk out of our way or else."

The museum and/or would-be saviors do not have the resources to remove these locos in the alloted time, with or without the cooperation of the property owners/developers.

Mentally, I've written them off. I'd LIKE to be proven wrong.........

I had admittedly long considered these to be "dead men walking" so to speak, then Danbury announced their plan to save them and I was pleasantly surprised, now that it's looking like they might be cut up, I'm back to my original mental state of "Well, I knew this was coming."

It sucks, losing the first mass-produced electric locomotive and the last surviving T-motor, but the whole mess really started decades ago. The original group basically abandoned them there, and then Danbury took ownership of them almost a decade ago and seemingly waited until "Ahhh, they absolutely have to me moved NOW" to try and save them.

The passenger cars and two diesels were scrapped over the course of the last week. All that is left as of today were the frames and trucks of the RS3 and U25B.

Regarding the natural gas line:




There are several examples of old underground natural gas pipelines catching fire and causing extensive damage (e.g. San Bruno, CA). A different take on this: if the natural gas company is concerned about damage to the pipeline buried 30 feet down then it seems that they ought to be very concerned about construction equipment and earth moving activities as well. I would think if they are concerned about a train moving slowly over track (which distributes the load) that they need to consider shutting the pipeline down for the duration of the construction (8 months was listed previously).

Quick internet search: fully loaded earth moving scraper can weigh 125 tons (or more?). The forces of combined weight of a scraper and shearing on the dirt by the scraper should also be a concern (not to mention including when the scraper is pushed by one or more bulldozers).

The judgement to say earth moving activities with heavy equipment are safe while a slow train movement on steel track is not safe seems tenuous. There has to be such an extremely narrow civil engineering window where that is true (if it exists at all) that I would think a reasonable civil engineer evaluating the situation would not be willing to recommend the construction and earth moving without also accepting that the locomotive movement is acceptable as well.

The natural gas company is not going to like dealing with whatever costs are associated with shutting down the pipeline for the ~8 months construction for safety reasons. It would be politically "touchy," but I think the natural gas company would or should, in the interest of public safety, "sharpen the pencil," to do a more detailed analysis of the risk that is involved in the construction (not to mention the locomotive movement).

If the nearby homeowners are concerned about hazardous dust, maybe they ought to consider what happened to the subdivision destroyed by fire in San Bruno, CA. That said stirring things up often doesn't help although maybe some reasonableness will result if there are credible reasons for all concerned think about it a bit more. I would say the initial answer by the natural gas company is pointing out a good reason that their own answer should be re-visited.