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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 80
Shame to see it leave! Especially with 349 also gone.

3 steam locomotives is a major undertaking for any group. You'd almost think they'd want to get one running first, then add more steam locos to restore.

Agree the 5288 would have been neat to see in green at tvrm, but they don't really have anywhere to run their current power, much less the need for anything with more speed. Don't see NS wanting to run any trips and with the GA trips out, the local is it.

Maybe they'll be able to cosmetically restore the KT 10 one day..


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:46 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
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BWills wrote:

3 steam locomotives is a major undertaking for any group. You'd almost think they'd want to get one running first, then add more steam locos to restore.



GTW #5030 is years away from being even moved to Pennsylvania, and last I heard, the locals were pushing back against it being moved. Wouldn't be the first time a prospective restoration was sunk by locals not wanting to lose "their" engine.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 11:11 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1799
BWills wrote:
Shame to see it leave! Especially with 349 also gone.



Indeed - I do question those decisions. The #349 was the oldest steam locomotive at the museum, and the #5288 was the only passenger steam locomotive - to lose both of them as display pieces at Grand Junction is unfortunate.

Unless something has changed recently, there will no longer be any steam locomotives on display at Grand Junction... which seems sad.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 2:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 80
I guess there's always the tiny tiny chance they could acquire something like the CofG 2-8-0 509, or something like Sou 385 or 107, but I'd say they aren't looking to expand their collection unless it's something donated like the SD40 from NS or baby trainmaster from TVA.

I'd imagine there is a significant loss or revenue from the loss of the GA trips, thankfully they have the freight switching operation to help finances.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 3:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2015 10:58 am
Posts: 36
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
BWills wrote:
Shame to see it leave! Especially with 349 also gone.



Indeed - I do question those decisions. The #349 was the oldest steam locomotive at the museum, and the #5288 was the only passenger steam locomotive - to lose both of them as display pieces at Grand Junction is unfortunate.

Unless something has changed recently, there will no longer be any steam locomotives on display at Grand Junction... which seems sad.


You could be sad, but on the other hand, I would assume this generated a good chunk of income for TVRM to put towards keeping their equipment operating, or to restore something that makes for sense for their current operations.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:04 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1799
jcmarksbury wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
BWills wrote:
Shame to see it leave! Especially with 349 also gone.



Indeed - I do question those decisions. The #349 was the oldest steam locomotive at the museum, and the #5288 was the only passenger steam locomotive - to lose both of them as display pieces at Grand Junction is unfortunate.

Unless something has changed recently, there will no longer be any steam locomotives on display at Grand Junction... which seems sad.


You could be sad, but on the other hand, I would assume this generated a good chunk of income for TVRM to put towards keeping their equipment operating, or to restore something that makes for sense for their current operations.


And I would argue that having a passenger steam locomotive on display should have been a priority for a "museum." (As well as the #349...)


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 5:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
If the locomotive is in good condition internally, is standing idle and rusting externally, isn't it better to see it restored as an operable CNR Pacific? There remains scores of neglected locos in the south, all in need of a local savior.
Steamtown catches heck every day for not restoring or properly maintaining other priceless locomotives.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 1:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1799
Richard Glueck wrote:
If the locomotive is in good condition internally, is standing idle and rusting externally, isn't it better to see it restored as an operable CNR Pacific? There remains scores of neglected locos in the south, all in need of a local savior.
Steamtown catches heck every day for not restoring or properly maintaining other priceless locomotives.


Well, you are asking 2 different questions. Would I rather see the 5288 under steam in PA vs. on display in TN? Yes.

But would I rather see TVRM as a museum with a passenger steam locomotive properly displayed vs. no passenger steam locomotive as part of their collection? Yes.

Since I highly doubt the 5288 will actually operate in the next 10 years (it's possible... but unlikely) that also adds to my sadness about seeing the 5288 depart.

TVRM has a weird past of getting rid of steam locomotives that are ideal for their collection... the 3 spot (now at Age of Steam in Ohio), the 349, Tennessee Central 509, US Army 611, and now the 5288.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 2:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:12 pm
Posts: 213
Location: Bremerton, WA
"TVRM has a weird past of getting rid of steam locomotives that are ideal for their collection... the 3 spot (now at Age of Steam in Ohio), the 349, Tennessee Central 509, US Army 611, and now the 5288."

In anticipation of projected tourist traffic expected to attend the Knoxville World's Fair, it was decided to use the opportunity to transform TVRM from what looked like a scrap yard with a track to nowhere into a proper railroad. A large loan was taken out to install the turntable and shop in East Chattanooga and the wye and station in Grand Junction. If the Savings & Loan collapse was easily predicted, it would not have happened. I'm sure the plans to upgrade for the World's Fair would have been shelved had the economic future been known. Nobody went to Knoxville, they didn't stop in Chattanooga to ride the train and the bank was banging on the door. In order to get some cash and keep the bank at bay, TVRM sold 3 Spot to Paul Merriman who then sold it to JJJ. Believe me, nobody wanted to see it go. Tough decisions had to be made to keep the bank from coupling up all the equipment and dragging it down the Belt Line to Siskin Steel for scrapping. I don't know the circumstances around CofG 349 going away but it sure is a classic locomotive and CofG served Chattanooga. The good news: it's still in town. Louisiana & Arkansas 509 (only painted as TC) is absolutely clapped out. An operational rebuild never made sense. USATC 611 has the Franklin rotary poppet valve gear - AFIK, the only example of that exact type. A tremendous amount of resources would have to be expended to return it to operation. Has the current owner got it running yet? 610 made a lot more sense, ran well for a long time and is similar to the S-160. 4501 is overkill for the regular run but it's earning it's keep. 5288 is even greater overkill for the regular run and wouldn't gain anything on the timetable going to Summerville. With the enclosed cab, I know I wouldn't even want a cab ride in the Summer much less be a captive crew member. The leadership clearly made some great decisions, having recovered from the brink of scrapping and continuing to be more than a scrap yard with a track to nowhere.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 5:40 pm 
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Adam Phillips wrote:
In anticipation of projected tourist traffic expected to attend the Knoxville World's Fair, it was decided to use the opportunity to transform TVRM from what looked like a scrap yard with a track to nowhere into a proper railroad. A large loan was taken out to install the turntable and shop in East Chattanooga and the wye and station in Grand Junction. If the Savings & Loan collapse was easily predicted, it would not have happened. I'm sure the plans to upgrade for the World's Fair would have been shelved had the economic future been known. Nobody went to Knoxville, they didn't stop in Chattanooga to ride the train and the bank was banging on the door. In order to get some cash and keep the bank at bay, TVRM sold 3 Spot to Paul Merriman who then sold it to JJJ.

I had no idea of any of this. It's especially ironic because my family went to ride TRMV on our way to Knoxville for the World's Fair! My parents had all their family in the Elizabethton area, so during our annual trip to see family there, we added a world's fair trip and hit TVRM.
I managed to get a cab ride on 630 (which my parents saw countless times as ET&WNC 207), when I was 12 on that trip.
At that time, you boarded the train at East Chattanooga and the other depot at Grand Junction had just been built but nothing was in it at the time.
I didn't make it back there until my 40s.
But as for the nobody going to Knoxville, Wikipedia says 11,127,780 people went. That said, it wasn't enough and the city was drowning in red ink until the early 2000s when the loans finally got paid off. I never knew that but I'm not surprised as many events like this fail to make money. I guess that's one of many reasons they don't have World Fairs anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 6:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
.


Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2023 8:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Posts: 364
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Adam Phillips wrote:
Louisiana & Arkansas 509 (only painted as TC) is absolutely clapped out.
I can confirm that. I was sent to TVRM to inspect her for an operation out west. She was unique in my experience in that she has obviously been in a head-on! Her frame is a scandal of bent parts, broken fitted bolts, and half-assed clamps trying to hold things together. I have no idea whether this misadventure happened to her while in service, or at some later date.

As the client mused after reading my report, "Of all the engines in good condition that were scrapped, and they had to save this one."


According to an.old post on this forum:

"Louisiana & Arkansas 4-6-0 #509 was in a spectacular head-on with a 2-8-2. A side-view photo of the wreck showed the 509 up into the smokebox of the mike. The 509's tender tank was torn from it's frame and smashed forward trapping the fireman in the left side gangway as the tank crushed the cab towards the backhead. You could see his left boot, glove and hat sticking out from the 2" space that used to be the gangway.
We were told that the loco was rebuilt at the L&A Shops. It later derailed on straight level track and diverted down a dirt road and into the post office - killing the postmaster! The loco was rebuilt again and remained in service many years, but earned a reputation has a VooDoo engine - haunted - or possesed with an intent for killing.
In the 1970's the loco was at the Whitewater Valley in Brookville, IN. In the 1980's, she went to TVRM and is now on display in Cookeville, TN. It was always a treat to take a look at the frame of that engine. It had weld repairs everywhere - and lots of them."


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2023 2:13 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 12:12 pm
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Location: Bremerton, WA
"I managed to get a cab ride on 630 (which my parents saw countless times as ET&WNC 207), when I was 12 on that trip."

If it was Monday thru Friday, I was likely the fireman. We had volunteers on the weekends.

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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Sun Apr 16, 2023 6:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2017 12:39 am
Posts: 91
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
Richard Glueck wrote:
If the locomotive is in good condition internally, is standing idle and rusting externally, isn't it better to see it restored as an operable CNR Pacific? There remains scores of neglected locos in the south, all in need of a local savior.
Steamtown catches heck every day for not restoring or properly maintaining other priceless locomotives.


Well, you are asking 2 different questions. Would I rather see the 5288 under steam in PA vs. on display in TN? Yes.

But would I rather see TVRM as a museum with a passenger steam locomotive properly displayed vs. no passenger steam locomotive as part of their collection? Yes.

Since I highly doubt the 5288 will actually operate in the next 10 years (it's possible... but unlikely) that also adds to my sadness about seeing the 5288 depart.

TVRM has a weird past of getting rid of steam locomotives that are ideal for their collection... the 3 spot (now at Age of Steam in Ohio), the 349, Tennessee Central 509, US Army 611, and now the 5288.


The 349 has often been cited as being "too small" for TVRM's operations, which I've always found odd given the needs of the local run. My only reasoning could be the need to top off the water in the tender on a relatively tight turn time, but that seems an operational hurdle that wouldn't be that hard to figure out. A stoker-fired, feedwater heater-equipped mikado is certainly overkill for that run by all means, but everyone there is well aware of that fact.

I wouldn't bemoan the departure of the 349 all the same, as the museum still owns it. It is currently under cover with a fresh paint job, in a place many people (especially children who stand a good chance of remembering it) will see it. It's a much better fate than many engines, though it is a shame that it isn't within context of the museum.


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 Post subject: Re: TVRM transfers ownership of CN #5288 to Colebrookdale Ra
PostPosted: Mon Apr 17, 2023 6:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
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Several posts have made comments about engines being right or wrong for TVRM's operations. TVRM is a museum and should have museum pieces as well.


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