Hi
A friend of asked me a good question this afternoon while we were in one of the local restaurants talking about trains.

He brought up the question, Why didn't the New York Central, at the end of Steam, announce any last runs behind the Hudson's ( 4-6-4) or the Niagara (4-8-4) locomotives or Mohawks.( 4-8-2) ????
Was it because the President of the railroad at Mr. Perlman, at that time did not want anything to do with last runs of these locomotives. Because the new era of the diesel was beginning for the railroad.

But other railroads did announce there last runs behind Steam, such as the New Haven Railroad & Southern Pacific RR. I am sure were other railroads that did announce there last runs, besides the two I just mentioned.

As for getting enough people ride the last runs would not take much effort, on selling tickets, either from the railroad itself, or through the Railroad Enthusiasts or through any other railroad historical society to fill the coaches.

So Hopefully someone can answer the question, WHY were they no last runs behind the NYC Hudson's, Niagara's or Mohawks,,, ????? I want to thank you in advance, Pat.

Don't have clue about this

Maybe the Perlman tigh finances and reducing expenses policy is the reason

NYC was not in good shape in the 50's

I believe the above anonymous poster has "nailed" it.

In 1957, NYC was in the grip of a recession and was severely impacted by the opening of the NY Thruway and other projects under the Interstate Highway Act. Completion of the St Lawrence Seaway was less than two years away.

The Perlman management group, installed following a proxy war in 1954 spearheaded by Robert R. Young, had found NYC's financial condition in much worse condition than was expected. Many of the Perlman-driven reforms, including the reduction of multiple main tracks across the System would not be completed for years to come. The race to retire steam and related facilities was in high gear.

In January, 1958, NYC suspended its dividend, to arrest the outflow of cash. Later that month, and unable to keep his promises to the shareholders, CEO Young committed suicide by shotgun at his home in Palm Beach, FL.

Sadly, the circumstances were sufficiently desperate that other possibilities, such as suggested in this thread, were seen as unaffordable distractions.

Interestingly, late in the era of Vanderbilt control, in 1954, Hudson #5433 was cleaned up for a display - for an event involving display of the engine at GCT, as I believe. If others have further information of this event, I would like to hear more of it.

In the early 1960s, a neighbor who had retired from the NYC HQ at 466 Lexington Ave related the story of an engine that had been set aside and stored in the roundhouse at Selkirk (IIRC) but damaged in a fire and regretfully scrapped. I think this may have been the fate of 5433.

Back in the day when most railfan pictures were either 'traded' on postcards, I had a postcard of 5433 all 'dolled up' for display at GCT. The postcard caption indicated that this was for the "300th anniversary of the founding of the City of New York".

I have seen another post here in the past that indicated the event was a show of New York Central power, including an E unit, and we have pictures of the engine from the fall of 1953 that show it 'unimproved' at that time. What I suspect we have is a tie-in with the Post Office issuance of the 'official' first day cover and stamps commemmorating the 300th anniversary (of the founding of Nieuw Amsterdam, which was in February of 1653 but someone more skilled in New York City historiography can better explain the issue date):

https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1856/43872633174_dc4d0ac0b7_o.jpg

Personally, I always had the idea that this was a sort of 'cosmetic restoration' -- paint and some strategic polish -- rather than a careful shopping for future preservation. I believe the engine was not formally retired until 1957, but again some fact-checking is in order.

Paul Carey knows his NYC history as well as anyone, but I wish to reference Robert McGonigal's two-page spread regarding Hudson 5344, appearing the winter 2022 edition of "Classic Trains". In four clear black & white images, 5344 is shown new, then as the "Commodore Vanderbilt", then in her Dreyfuss shroud, and sadly, stripped of all jewelry and white-lined on the scrap line at Collinwood, Ohio, dated 1954. I have no facts to based this on, but my gut tells me if Central had saved a Hudson, this would have been the one.
New York Central's financial straits aside, it seems unimaginable that the single most famous steam locomotive in the United States got overlooked in preservation. Just sad.

Have heard a rumor from someone who was a member of the Poughkeepsie Model Railroad club that Mr. Perlman offered them a Niagara. But the club had no funds to build a storage track.

I cannot verify the truth of the rumor.

And the NYCRR wanted to be seen as modern, one slogan was "NYC Road of the Future".

And there's the rub.

The NYC management in charge at the time (read: Perlman the dictator) not only wanted desperately for its railroad to be seen as sleek, clean, modern, and up to date, it/he also loathed steam and everything negative about it--high maintenance costs, extra labor costs, separate fuel and water facilities, etc. They could not get rid of steam fast enough for the board of directors, and also wanted nothing to do with preservation of its inglorious past (think Vanderbilt and "The public be damned!", even though that had nothing to do with Hudsons, etc.).

That being said, the legend of the "Hudson/Niagara hidden away in a barn/warehouse/enginehouse/shop/etc." is possibly the most persistent "wishful thinking" in world railroad folklore to this day. There are many multiple accounts, always involving scheming railroaders avoiding the wishes of higher-ups and any number of purported hiding locations (Selkirk, Collingwood, Elkhart, Detroit, random NYC locations where big steam never ran, etc.). Even railroad middle management would repeat such tales to the gullible in later years, almost as an exercise in apologetic excuse-making. The couple instances of "tarted up" temporary display locos such as the aforementioned 5433 always get presented as "evidence," but until someone actually uncovers hard evidence such as letters from the NYC to that Poughkeepsie model RR club or other entities actually offering them a modern steam locomotive, ALL of these apocryphal accounts have to go down as urban legends.

There WERE many actual instances of locos and equipment "stashed" and "hidden" for preservation elsewhere--from the definitive PRR steam loco collection stored in the Northumberland, Pa. roundhouse by management to the Edwards "doodlebug" parked in a Hampton & Branchville RR shed in Hampton, SC for decades (before acquisition by the North Carolina Transportation Museum), from the two ex-NYC steamers STILL abandoned in the far north Maine woods to the SR&RL 6/WW&F 9 stashed in the Ramsdell barn for decades in Connecticut, from the ATSF steamers and diesels stashed for decades in Belen, New Mexico to trolleys that are STILL part of buildings and off most would-be preservationists' radar screens. But the NYC big steamers are all "woulda/coulda/shoulda" dreaming.

The fact remains that two NYC Mohawk 4-8-2s were preserved by two organizations--the Texas & Pacific RR, to replace its own accidentally scrapped steamer promised to Dallas (NYC 3001, later traded for a GG1 to Elkhart, Indiana's NYC museum), and the National Museum of Transport in Kirkwood, Missouri (2933). And other would-be preservationists didn't get their collective acts together until it was too late--a scenario we have seen many times since.

Mohawk 2933 was the locomotive that was squirreled away in the Selkirk roundhouse, after a stint there as a stationary boiler.

Found this quote in the New York Central Historical Society "Headlight" (Quarter 4, 2010)

"When the stationary boilers failed at
Selkirk, New York, the 2933 was put in their place
to supply steam to the facilities. When the locomotive
was no longer needed for house steam, the doors
to the building where it sat were closed. It was out
of sight until a fire started to consume the building
along with others. Several people got a tractor and
pulled the locomotive to a safe location."

Sounds very close to the account given above for Hudson 5433.

2933 was apparently dolled up with white driver tires and displayed at least once at the New York State Fair in Syracuse during her years as a "refugee", from 1957 through 1962. Apparently by then, Perlman's thirst for eliminating any and all traces of steam power had been slaked.

Finally in 1962 she was donated to the museum where she remains today.

One more tidbit regarding the 2933. She developed a hot journal while being towed towards St. Louis. She was taken to the Collinwood Shop for repairs and thus became the last steam locomotive repaired there.

Even though they had assembled a historic collection, PRR did noy announce the last steam passenger train, a Pemberton NJ-Camden local. K4s to Camden in the AM, Baldwin BS1200ams (1200 HP Road Switcher) back. Even PRR employees didn't know until the day before.

Phil Mulligan

The NYCRR was a for profit publicly traded BUSINESS that was accountable to the shareholders. With enormous pressures from government funding of airports and highways Mr. Perlman made necessary decisions to keep things afloat. Preserving steam locomotives that where obsolete in the business environment the NYCRR found themselves in in the 1950's would have been a betrayal of the fiduciary duty of a CEO of a publicly traded company.

I doubt Mr. Perlman in the late 1950's was very concerned about the public perception of things Commodore Vanderbilt said 75 years before.

The missing headlight and number boards were saved by being legally purchased from New York Central by a member of the Lionel Collectors' Club of America. After learning how much money to send for the headlight from 5344, he was disappointed when the crate arrived to find only the unnumbered light in it. He thought that the numbers and light were 1 big casting. After more communications, the numbers arrived and were reunited with the headlight. I've heard him tell the story twice at LCCA conventions around 1980.

I offer a different perspective for open minded folks;

The IBM Selectric typewriter was "ground breaking" and widely used.

Yet when "IBM PC's" arrived nobody screamed "We have to preserve the IBM Selectric Typewriters so future generations can appreciate them"...

I think thousands of IBM Selective typewriters where thrown in the dustbin of history and nobody said a word...

Apparently you can get a Selectric on Ebay for a hundred bucks or so, but they are a heck of a lot easier to move and store than a NYCRR Hudson.

Although the PRR did not itself announce or advertise any "farewell to steam" excursion, a special excursion from Baltimore to Northumberland and return on October 20, 1957 (probably chartered by the Baltimore Society of Model Engineers) was powered by L-1s class steam engine no. 559 at least north of Harrisburg, and visited and turned at Northumberland for riders to visit the PRR's historic locomotive and rolling stock collection stored there. Flyers for the trip that have been preserved DID promote the trip as a "FAREWELL TO STEAM" run. A few steam engines were still parked at the roundhouse on standby, and several historic locomotives were on display for the visitors. The next day, the fires were reportedly dropped on those last few engines for the last time. It is said that a last few 2-8-0 stragglers remained in service on the local branches (to Mt. Carmel, Milton, and McClure/Snyder County) for about another two weeks or month, and like the K4s's on the NY&LB were retired and sent to Altoona for storage/scrapping in mid-November. Even though I grew up in that part of Pennsylvania, I have never managed to discern an absolute last "drop-dead" date for steam out of Northumberland, though it was apparently dependent upon delivery of additional GP9s to the PRR through 1956-57.

EDIT: I just double-checked: The PRR did have what was considered an official "Farewell to Steam" excursion in New Jersey, also on October 20, 1957. An excursion was sponsored by Branford Electric Railway Association, with K4 612 the locomotive chosen for the run, covering the NY&LB and the Freehold and Jamesburg Agricultural Railroad (Manasquan to Freehold to Jamesburg).

I know Jay Winn recounts a tale of riding in a Niagara through the Utica, NY yard in 1955. It was assigned to a mail train, and they were having an issue that required it to be unhooked, backed over to the engine house and have a coupler swapped on the tender, and the engine crew invited Winn and his grandfather up into the cab for the short jaunt. I'm certainly not calling Jay Winn a liar, but it's astonishing that there was a Niagara that far east on the system at that late of a date. He did note that she was pretty tired though; gauges faces were smashed, it was grungy and filthy even for a steam locomotive, leaking steam everywhere.

Arnold Haas (although not the most accurate of 'railroad historians!) was firmly convinced that crews were doing their level best to wreck the Niagaras in the mid-Fifties -- he relates hoggers running them with far too much as well as far too little cutoff, for instance -- and IIRC Staufer noted that the locomotives were being run until some sort of mechanical failure greater than 'line maintenance' could address. This story would be 'of a piece' with that narrative, in about the right timeframe.