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 Post subject: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 1:49 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 219
From their Facebook page:

Quote:
Being locked out of the Railroad was only the beginning. Below is the letter received this evening from Dean Thulin of Cal Poly College of Agriculture, Food & Environmental Sciences.
Please read the full letter and let us know what you think in the comments, now is the time for constructive conversation.

Swanton Pacific Ranch Railroad Volunteers,

I am writing today with an update about the Swanton Pacific Ranch Railroad.

First, please know that the work of the entire Railroad Society in helping with the recovery of artifacts and cleanup of the railroad facilities following the 2020 fire is greatly appreciated. As you know, we’ve spent the past two years working hard to clean up the ranch to get it up and running for future, ongoing use. I appreciate your patience as we focused on the ranch – getting our faculty, staff and students back on the ranch safely for research and learning remains our top priority.

As you’re more than aware, most all railroad facilities and equipment were destroyed.

While several physical structures specific to the railroad were covered by insurance policies in place at the time of the fire, the actual rolling stock, parts inventory, specialized equipment and railroad tracks were not covered by the insurance policy in effect at the time of the fire.

Current rolling stock repair estimates produced and reviewed by subject matter experts are more than $10M, and while FEMA reimbursement may cover a small portion of that, it will not cover it all, leaving a significant financial exposure to the university. Just to be clear, the funding we recently received from the state budget is restricted to building an education center on the ranch; none of these funds can be used for the railroad.

With our need to focus all of our efforts on the core educational elements of ranch operations and given the expected cost to restore the railroad, we no longer believe the university is the best steward of these unique artifacts of railroad history. Therefore, consistent with Al Smith’s wishes at the time of his gift we have made the decision to begin the process of transferring the railroad to an entity that can restore and care for these invaluable assets. We have already discussed this with the Smith family so they are aware of the decision

We have hired a consultant who has developed an inventory of assets including their valuation and repair status. As Al Smith spelled out in his gift, we will be contacting the California State Railroad Museum to see if they would like to receive any of these important artifacts of railroad history. Based on the outcome of that conversation, we may need to contact additional potential stewards of the assets. Our goal now is to be true to Al Smith’s wish that these artifacts are both preserved and made available to the public.

I know your passion for the railroad runs deep, and we hope through that passion you will help us find an organization that has the resources and mission that will ensure both the preservation and public access of the railroad artifacts. I recognize this is not the outcome for the railroad you had hoped for but hope we can count on your support and assistance as we move through this process.

I also want to address the financial donations to the railroad that came in post-fire. Our intent is to utilize those funds to safely transfer the railroad artifacts to their new owner to preserve the integrity of the original intent of those recent donations – to support the restoration of the Swanton Pacific Ranch Railroad assets.

I want to reiterate that this was a very difficult decision. The railroad was a unique part of Swanton Pacific Ranch. We all know that Al Smith got great pleasure in helping to preserve locomotives and providing the public the opportunity to learn about how important steam locomotives were to the building of this country. I firmly believe that getting these priceless assets into the hands of an entity whose core mission it is to restore and make them accessible to the public would be what Al wanted.

Thank you again for your patience as we navigated the post-fire disaster.
-Andy

Swanton Pacific Railroad Society

California Polytechnic State University (Cal Poly)
Cal Poly Alumni


https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 3768780064


How many times must the lesson be taught that if you don't own what you have, your future has already been written?


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 4:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:05 pm
Posts: 89
TLDR version:
It was great when the old guy gave us all this free stuff and footed the bill for everything but now it's going to cost us money so get it the hell out of here.


Not that you can blame them there's basically nothing left that isn't a charred hulk except the Keystone built diesel and the Pacific that was sitting in Wasatch's shop when the fire occurred. Don't know why you wouldn't have had an insurance policy for your equipment in place.


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:02 pm
Posts: 138
Location: Mi
I going to add a personal observation of the industry as a whole that manifests in this statement.

Of all the organization I have been involved with in the past thirty years not one single one had adequate coverage on their structures, equipment, tools and parts. The usual patter was to have one or two objects or categories with with some level of coverage and the rest was just "hangin out there." the one organization that had nearly everything listed hadn't adjusted the values for inflation or changing market values since they had acquired the asset, and when supplied with documentation to support adjusting the policy, they raised the amounts a minimal sum to prevent their rates from going up.

So not to detract from the end of what was probably one of the finest and most significant private railroads in the United Stated, please learn from that not only does your organization need to actively participate in disaster preparedness relevant to your location, but it needs to be reviewed on a regular basis alone with your insurance coverage for when the former fails.

Rant over.


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 5:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Byers, Colorado
If I read this right, volunteers helped clean up the fire damage, investing two years of time, effort, and money. Tough break, eh ??

_________________
I am just an old man...
who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2022 11:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12147
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Paul D wrote:
Of all the organization I have been involved with in the past thirty years not one single one had adequate coverage on their structures, equipment, tools and parts. The usual patter was to have one or two objects or categories with with some level of coverage and the rest was just "hangin out there." the one organization that had nearly everything listed hadn't adjusted the values for inflation or changing market values since they had acquired the asset, and when supplied with documentation to support adjusting the policy, they raised the amounts a minimal sum to prevent their rates from going up.

So not to detract from the end of what was probably one of the finest and most significant private railroads in the United Stated, please learn from that not only does your organization need to actively participate in disaster preparedness relevant to your location, but it needs to be reviewed on a regular basis alone with your insurance coverage for when the former fails.


Having crunched the numbers for a couple groups, I can tell you:

NO such non-profit can realistically afford "complete" coverage for their operation.

Does your auto or homeowners insurance REALLY cover the complete replacement cost for your car or house? Not really, unless you're paying through the nose.

We were extremely fortunate, when the B&O RR Museum suffered its roof collapse nearly 20 years ago, that they were insured almost as much as any such non-profit rail museum could be. Most importantly for them, they had "loss of business" insurance, which allowed them to pay critical staff and administrators to remain employed by the Museum during their long rebuilding period. My inquiries about at the time suggested they may have been the ONLY such non-government-administered rail museum in North America so well insured. This also mean, incidentally, that their admission was/remains several dollars more expensive than comparable state-administered and private museums. I remember hearing sticker-shocked patrons at the entrance, both before and after the roof collapse and subsequent rebuild, and thinking "if only they knew how their dollars REALLY helped keep this stuff until now and for years to come........."

The reality is that most such groups are but one tropical storm, one flood, one carbarn fire, or one Kinzua Viaduct collapse, etc. away from perishing.

The trick is to have enough public goodwill and sympathy to help you rebuild after such a catastrophe. And that's where your volunteers and administration come in.


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 3:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2605
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Paul D wrote:
Of all the organization I have been involved with in the past thirty years not one single one had adequate coverage on their structures, equipment, tools and parts. The usual patter was to have one or two objects or categories with with some level of coverage and the rest was just "hangin out there." the one organization that had nearly everything listed hadn't adjusted the values for inflation or changing market values since they had acquired the asset, and when supplied with documentation to support adjusting the policy, they raised the amounts a minimal sum to prevent their rates from going up.

So not to detract from the end of what was probably one of the finest and most significant private railroads in the United Stated, please learn from that not only does your organization need to actively participate in disaster preparedness relevant to your location, but it needs to be reviewed on a regular basis alone with your insurance coverage for when the former fails.


Having crunched the numbers for a couple groups, I can tell you:

NO such non-profit can realistically afford "complete" coverage for their operation.

Does your auto or homeowners insurance REALLY cover the complete replacement cost for your car or house? Not really, unless you're paying through the nose.

We were extremely fortunate, when the B&O RR Museum suffered its roof collapse nearly 20 years ago, that they were insured almost as much as any such non-profit rail museum could be. Most importantly for them, they had "loss of business" insurance, which allowed them to pay critical staff and administrators to remain employed by the Museum during their long rebuilding period. My inquiries about at the time suggested they may have been the ONLY such non-government-administered rail museum in North America so well insured. This also mean, incidentally, that their admission was/remains several dollars more expensive than comparable state-administered and private museums. I remember hearing sticker-shocked patrons at the entrance, both before and after the roof collapse and subsequent rebuild, and thinking "if only they knew how their dollars REALLY helped keep this stuff until now and for years to come........."

The reality is that most such groups are but one tropical storm, one flood, one carbarn fire, or one Kinzua Viaduct collapse, etc. away from perishing.

The trick is to have enough public goodwill and sympathy to help you rebuild after such a catastrophe. And that's where your volunteers and administration come in.



Cardinal rule of risk management and insurance to insure the large infrequent losses and retain the small ones, and to ensure against as many perils as possible. (Most property insurance has exclusions for things like war, but if there's a Red Dawn scenario, don't worry about your stuff) It's a further application of the of the requirements for an "insurable risk" - that the exposure must be economically significant. You insure houses, cars. the wife's diamond, but not the microwave or pencils.

Unfortunately, most of the time we violate that ideal-especially with what we call "health insurance" people inevitably want cheap office visits, so they are "getting something back" when all that does is "trade dollars", along with the deadweight losses of claims submission, validation and payment.

There's only place I want a low deductible (risk retention)- automobile collision coverage. Since most auto loans require a deductible of no greater than $500, people often stick with that, but given today's prices, I expect $1000 to become the norm. With a 7 year old car w/ 85K miles that was already rear ended, in an ideal world, I'd take a $2,500 deductible and use the savings as a sinking fund, or to raise my limits of liability.

However, if I'm in involved in a collision with another at-fault vehicle, I simply file a collision claim with my insurer and they wrangle the money out of the other driver's carrier through a process called subrogation, rather than me dealing with the other company-and there's a couple that are notorious for jerking people around on claims.

What the B&O museum had was textbook correct. They had high limits and as you mention business interruption insurance. I don't know that their deductible was; but as we see the bolt out of the blue is the real danger. We visited there for the first time in 2005 and I remember they were still dealing with the damage from the incident and were showing us pieces of equipment that they bought and had donated, not only to fix the damage, but to work on other parts of the collection in the future. This was one of those machines; then still in shrink-wrap.

You can bet casualty actuaries of companies with risks in Buffalo are concerned about the possibility of snow laden roof collapses producing big losses; worse because it could be a while until the property restoration specialists can get there; allowing further damage to occur.

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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 5:10 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 219
Could the group that operated the Swanton Pacific have even obtained a policy for the buildings and assets which they used, but didn't actually own? Perhaps a loss of business policy or standard liability insurance for their own organization, but not insurance against the loss of what was there. That would have been CalPoly's responsibility, no?


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2022 6:39 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 178
Location: San Jose, CA
Boilermaker wrote:
Could the group that operated the Swanton Pacific have even obtained a policy for the buildings and assets which they used, but didn't actually own? Perhaps a loss of business policy or standard liability insurance for their own organization, but not insurance against the loss of what was there. That would have been CalPoly's responsibility, no?


The relationship between the volunteers and the university was complex from the start.

Before Smith donated the railroad (and the acreage), there was a good number of volunteers who had worked on the railroad for ten years plus. To accommodate these volunteers, a sanctioned university club was created and new rules applied to allow non-students to participate.

One requirement for a university club is a current facility member as an advisor. For many years, this was not a problem. However over time with retirements and administration changes, issues surfaced.

Compounding the organizational environment was the location of the railroad. Because of its closeness to the Pacific Ocean, the railroad fell under the jurisdiction of the California Coastal Commission. Several washouts occurred over the years with each time requiring lengthy review processes by various agencies. Reviews that require heavy involvement of the owner…the university.

As I initially stated, it has been a complex relationship between the volunteers and the university. While the initial intentions were good by all parties, it was was strained over time and not sustainable after the devastating loss brought by the wildfire.

Ironically, those of us who became members of this university sanctioned club are forever included in the institution’s fundraising mailings…railroad or no railroad.


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 8:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 1078
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
As might have been expected, the inheritor of an unwanted railway stepchild, has completed the process of freeing up its real estate, despite the wishes of many.

To me, this is not much different than many rail museums and heritage rail operations that operate on leased track, or urban trolleys (or urban 18 inch gauge railroads like Anacortes) that wind up defunct and usually removed.

The good news is that the Swanton Pacific is now relocating to a wonderful place with a strong basis in rail heritage, and the organization is rebranding itself. with a new name, as a 501c3 and not as a club of an educational institution.

All that said, there were many good years of cooperative operation with the SPRS and Cal Poly at Swanton. I was privileged to experience 19 inch gauge railroading at its best, a few times. The volunteers and the organization held true to the vision of Al Smith, the founder and ranch owner, for a long time. Something changed, and then a convenient fire erased all that had been built and the political wind had changed. Here's to my wishes for success of the Overfair Pacific Railroad Society at their new home at the Santa Margarita Ranch!
https://www.overfairpacific.com/

https://youtu.be/T6Jqul1LfGg


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 Post subject: Re: End of the Swanton Pacific Railroad? NO, a rebirth!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2023 11:14 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 178
Location: San Jose, CA
Considering some of the bleak rumors of the collection being broken up, the news that nearly all are going to ONE organization is fantastic. Additionally, the new organization is eager to rebuild these historic assets AND has the necessary industry support to make it happen.

Several trailer loads of material and equipment arrived this week in Santa Margarita.

Yes, it is disappointing not to rebuild in Swanton, but in the words of project manager Jeff Badger, “We’re keeping the Band together!”


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