I am trying to research the history of a caboose. I am in possession of a caboose door and it has the number 19805 painted across the top in white letters. I understand that the door was once displayed in a railroad museum owned by the Kast family of Williamsport, PA. There was another sign on the window that had 1920-1930 on it. That sign was placed on the door while it was displayed at the museum for decades.

The Hotel Kast was a hotel that train crews stayed at during layovers in Williamsport. I was told that after the Kast train museum closed the door was stored in the basement of the Hotel Kast until it came into my possession a few days ago.

I’d like to know more information about what the number on the door actually means, when the car was built and what happened to the rest of the car or any other pertinent information? I couldn’t find anything on the internet other than there was a large caboose manufacturer in Kenton, OH where it might have been built?

I have been stripping the paint from the door. It appears the first layer of original paint was black on one side of the door and the other sides original color was white, cream or perhaps light tan color? The door is made entirely of Poplar wood.

The blue plastic film was placed over the two glass windows to protect them from damage during shipping from Williamsport to Ohio.

2 Gentlemen from the PRR Society suggested I contact the Reading Society as they both said the door did not come from a PRR cabin car even though the museum th out it was from PRR. They thought it may have come from a Reading car but that historical society said that the number on the door didn’t correspond with their numbering system. They suggested I contact NY Central RR Society.

I am unable to post pictures in this post. Do I need a minimum number of posts before I can attach pictures?

Thank you,
Tim…

New York Central had cabooses numbered in the 19xxx series (PRR did not), I haven't found a photo of yours (if it is NYC) but here is 19008 (in service) and 19877 (which is at R&GVRRM): https://canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-CABOOSE.htm http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList ... =NYC&cid=1

Edit, from R&GVRRM website: "Built in 1921 by the New York Central’s own shops in Oswego, N.Y., this cupola caboose has a steel frame and a wood body. Part of a group of 115 cars numbered 19001 through 20082 (Lots 427, 468) constructed at Oswego Shops between 1912 and 1923, these wood body cars made up the backbone of the caboose fleet through the 1960s. The original construction cost of No. 19877 was estimated to be about $3600.00. The car is 36 feet in length and features a truss rod underbody design." https://www.rgvrrm.org/about/railroad/nyc19877/

Not positive it is a NYC caboose, but it is a good guess.

PMC,

Thank you for that information. In looking at the second picture, the door panel and window pane construction as well as the door handle location in that photo match our door perfectly. This is great news because none of the other RR Historical Societies' which I have inquired at have had caboose door constructions that match mine yet. Your photo is the first one that matches ours so maybe we are on the right track, no pun intended.

"Part of a group of 115 cars numbered 19001 through 20082" When I do the math it comes out to 1081 cars between those numbers and not 115 cars??? Do they number every car or skip some numbers sequentially? What does the number actually mean? Is it a serial number? The manufacture dates in your commentary certainly align with the blue sign included with my door.

Would that rail line have passed through the Williamsport, PA area? Just trying to imagine how that door ended up in PA if its a NYC car?

I volunteer at the R&GVRRM, owner of the NYC 19877. That door could indeed be from a NYC 19000 series caboose.

A word of caution: These cabooses apparently did not retain their road numbers through various shoppings. I found three distinct road numbers stenciled on the center sill of the 19877. So finding a photo of "the car" that the door belongs to, could be a real challenge.

I'll try to get a photo of a door on 19877, next visit to the Museum.

JR

Thanks for your help John. Your help is certainly appreciated.

Someone sent me a link to a ConRail caboose with my same 19805 number on it. It can be seen in this link.

https://www.caboosenut.com/Cab_NHblack_station.htm

But I am not sure that is the same caboose since the info says it was originally a #705? This is so confusing, arrrgggghhhh! None the less I sure appreciate any and all information and leads.

I called the phone number on the above website and spoke to the gentleman that owns that caboose. He said he traced its history back to a Conrail caboose. Even though his number is the same as mine he said my door would have been blue colored. I have stripped all the paint from my door and there was never any blue paint layer(s). Only the original color of black on one side and white on the other side then that was followed by multiple layers of red paint.

The caboose you reference above is not the same one you are asking about, Penn Central (and later Conrail) starting in the late 1960s numbered some cabooses from merged companies into the old New York Central series, probably because the old NYC simply had the most cabooses and they wouldn't want to renumber them. (Another reason might be that cabooses in certain series had different equipment on board, documents in the conductor's desk etc., for use with passengers on mixed trains or picking up freight and so forth, and I think some eastern states had their own laws about what a caboose must have on it, fire extinguishers, etc.). The above would be a former New Haven steel caboose that Penn Central renumbered into their own series when they merged with New Haven in December 1968, Conrail later numbered former Erie, Lehigh Valley etc. cabooses into the 19xxx series also. By the time of the Penn Central merger the caboose your door came from probably would have been long retired and so the 19805 number would be available. http://crcaboose.railfan.net/classes/NE-6.htm If you look at this Conrail caboose roster you will see that the 19xxx series came from several former roads. http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsList ... d=CR&cid=1 But because your door is wood it still is likely that it came from a wood NYC caboose, retired before Conrail existed.

Could you possibly take your door to R&GVRRM or one of the other museums with a NYC wood 19xxx series caboose (there are six others listed on the R&GVRRM page for 19877)? It is possible that the hinges would match right up.

Yes, the NYC had a rail line that passed near and into Williamsport, PA.

http://fallbrookrailway.com/

The NYC gained complete control before World War 1. That line continued and branched out into coal country and IIRC much of the coal burned in the NYC's locomotives passed over this line.

The right of way is the present day Pine Creek Rail Trail.

Brian Helfrich

Some shots of the NYC 19877 from today, at the RGVRRM, near Rochester NY.

Thanks for the pictures John. That door construction is identical to ours right down to and including the skeleton key escutcheon plate. I think we have confirmed proof that I have a NYC door. Many thanks to EVERYONE who has has graciously shared your expertise.

Thanks for your input Brian. I think that might be the connection on how a NYC caboose door ended up in Williamsport, PA.

Not necessarily, I would bet the whole caboose didn't end up there by rail, it may have arrived by truck. In the post-war period railroads sold old wood cabooses for use as clubhouses in people's backyards etc., we see them showing up here all the time, sometimes far away from their original owner's territory, when a new homeowner wants them out of there. For example, here is a PRR wood caboose in New Jersey: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40540