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 Post subject: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:27 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Posts: 312
Taken from the Railroad Museum of New England's Facebook page:

SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT

The Railroad Museum of New England is pleased to announce a fundraising campaign to restore Baldwin steam locomotive #103 to active service. #103, a 2-6-2 “Prairie” type originally built for service in Alabama, has been part of the RMNE collection since 1986. #103 was one of the first heritage steam locomotives to operate in the northeast, during the years 1962 to 1975. She’s been dormant for almost 50 years.

Our museum will utilize the #103 restoration project and return to operation as a catalyst to encourage volunteerism, museum membership, become a community ambassador, and teach a new generation about these amazing machines. The sensory experience that a steam locomotive invokes is unique and awe-inspiring. RMNE will create new partnerships in preservation to bring this historic piece of Americana back to life.

Almost 100 years since it left the factory in Philadelphia, and 50 years since it last operated, #103 is ready for restoration. It is time to hear her whistle echo off the Litchfield Hills and through the Naugatuck River Valley.

To help us return steam to the Naugatuck River Valley and learn more about the project visit:

https://www.rmne.org/locomotive103?fbclid=IwAR3KJIar0aTPLYgpQhZvIPTJOFydqxRSOgFm9bGeYEtjS_4GawVmAo1FqgQ


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 8:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: B'more Maryland
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but... what does the 103 have to do with New England?

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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
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Well, as they put it on their site, "#103 was one of the first heritage steam locomotives to operate in the northeast, during the years 1962 to 1975."


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Tue Oct 03, 2023 9:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 1035
Location: NJ
103 has actually spent more time in the Northeast and New England than in Alabama.


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 2:07 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2516
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but... what does the 103 have to do with New England?


About the same degree of geographic contact relevance as GM&N 425 has to do with the coal regions or the 31, 90 and 475 have to do with Lancaster County and...


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:28 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: B'more Maryland
superheater wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but... what does the 103 have to do with New England?


About the same degree of geographic contact relevance as GM&N 425 has to do with the coal regions or the 31, 90 and 475 have to do with Lancaster County and...


You're correct, but there's a big difference: those are operated and lovingly cared for by for profit entities.

The RMNE is a museum.

There's supposed to be a different standard.

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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 11:48 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Massachusetts
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but... what does the 103 have to do with New England?


Ed,

The 103 was the first steam locomotive to operate at the Valley Railroad in Essex, CT, which is one of the most popular steam operations in the Northeast, and a place that now likely runs more steam at Christmas time than just about anyplace in the country. The 103 only operated there for a short time, as the engine was really too small for their application. For decades, it was displayed at the entrance to the railroad.

It would be pretty darn cool to see a steam operation at RNME. I grew up in the Torrington area and that former New Haven line was the only railroad I knew as a kid. Last year, I finally had an opportunity to ride the train from Thomaston to Torrington and can only imagine that I might live to do the same behind steam. The RMNE did run steam for 3-4 years about a decade ago, using a couple of the Gramling Locomotives. At least at the time, it seemed pretty popular when they did it. I suspect it would be very popular for fall colors and at Christmas.

I hope folks will support the project. Hopefully, they will find that the engine is in decent enough condition to restore.

/Kevin Madore


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2516
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
superheater wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Hate to be the devil's advocate, but... what does the 103 have to do with New England?


About the same degree of geographic contact relevance as GM&N 425 has to do with the coal regions or the 31, 90 and 475 have to do with Lancaster County and...


You're correct, but there's a big difference: those are operated and lovingly cared for by for profit entities.

The RMNE is a museum.

There's supposed to be a different standard.


Of course I'm correct.

What standard do you feel they failed in compliance?

"We’re a not-for-profit educational and historical organization whose mission is to tell the story of the region’s rich railroad heritage through our educational exhibits and operation of the Naugatuck Railroad."

Nothing in there says their exhibits must have had primary use in New England or any geographic area.

Illinois Railroad Museum has a DLW Box Cab and an LNE 0-6-0. What do they have to do with Illinois?

Nevada State has Edwards 401, which ran in Arizona. What does that have to do with Nevada?

Hoosier Valley has two B&A BL-2's. What do they have to do with the Hoosier Valley, Indiana or the Midwest?

California State Railroad Museum has Canadian National Railways Sleeping Car No. 1683 St. Hyacinthe. What does that have to do with California?

A lot of museums have foreign power and rolling stock and it advances their educational mission.

With about 1400 steam locomotives in the country, many surviving only because they were purchased for secondary service in places far from their initial owners' general area, (Rahway Valley No. 15) the practicalities of the situation are either to use something available that advances the knowledge of steam or insist on a capricious and unattainable primary use geographic connection and see nada.

Now of course, if we were to redirect some of the billions, er trillions being wasted in any number of rent-seeking political donor payoffs, maybe we could have 1000 faithful representations of geographically connected locomotives. Hell for that matter, we could just go full Stephanie Kelton and just create the cost ex nihilo.


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 1:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 1035
Location: NJ
I'm sure that if someone gave RMNE an NH, B&M, CV, BAR, MEC etc. steam locomotive they would be happy. But sometimes you have to use what you have. And again, that engine has been in CT for over 50 years. There are plenty of real New England pieces of equipment at RMNE: Rutland 260; NH 2019; NH, CV and B&M cabooses; the B&M SW-1; many freight car, just to name a few.


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2461
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
WOW.

A museum announces a steam restoration and we are 8 posts and 1100+ views including complaints about this milestone.


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1175
Location: B'more Maryland
The reason I brought this up is because the preservation community needs to pay some heed to museum best practices.

People indifferent or even unfriendly pay attention to this stuff and can use it against operations.

Just recently a museum's train rides were, essentially, shut down because they were deemed "an amusement".

The days of "we're a museum just because we have an old train" are over. Yes, operating steam has a benefit for a museum, but it's important to keep in mind that, at the end of the day, a museum that is publicly supported (through it's non profit status) needs to stay within it's mission statement.

While there are museums out there that have items in their collections or operations that aren't specifically "on mission", I'd think someone would bring the issue up when embarking on a strategically important project like this.

It sounds like there is indeed a link between railroading in the area and the Locomotive but it is somewhat tenuous. The RMNE needs to be ready to answer questions if someone critical of the project comes asking around. Getting folks to think about that and be ready for it is the reason I asked the question.

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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:04 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 212
Location: Massachusetts
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:

The days of "we're a museum just because we have an old train" are over. Yes, operating steam has a benefit for a museum, but it's important to keep in mind that, at the end of the day, a museum that is publicly supported (through it's non profit status) needs to stay within it's mission statement.

While there are museums out there that have items in their collections or operations that aren't specifically "on mission", I'd think someone would bring the issue up when embarking on a strategically important project like this.


Ed,

Not sure why you think this move might be off-mission.

The RMNE has been operating diesel-powered train rides for many years on the Naugatuck Railroad (which also has a local freight operation). They clearly believe that doing so is part of their mission to educate the public with regard to the historical (and current) importance of railroads in the region. While restoring a historic steam locomotive that was built for a local railroad might be the ideal choice, how many museums have access to restorable engines with those specific credentials? Last I knew, there were no New Haven steam survivors available. In this case, next best thing is a transplanted locomotive that has been in-region as a tourist engine far longer than it ever was in Alabama. The focus of the mission doesn't have to be on the history of THIS particular engine, but the history made by this KIND of engine.

/Kevin Madore


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 12:25 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2516
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
The reason I brought this up is because the preservation community needs to pay some heed to museum best practices.

People indifferent or even unfriendly pay attention to this stuff and can use it against operations.

Just recently a museum's train rides were, essentially, shut down because they were deemed "an amusement".

The days of "we're a museum just because we have an old train" are over. Yes, operating steam has a benefit for a museum, but it's important to keep in mind that, at the end of the day, a museum that is publicly supported (through it's non profit status) needs to stay within it's mission statement.

While there are museums out there that have items in their collections or operations that aren't specifically "on mission", I'd think someone would bring the issue up when embarking on a strategically important project like this.

It sounds like there is indeed a link between railroading in the area and the Locomotive but it is somewhat tenuous. The RMNE needs to be ready to answer questions if someone critical of the project comes asking around. Getting folks to think about that and be ready for it is the reason I asked the question.



Questions from who? About what? What does "essentially shut down" mean. Deemed an amusement by who? Why was it "essentially shut down" rather than just subject to the normal requirements of amusements, such as periodic inspection of the equipment?

Ed's visceral indignities aren't substantive objections.


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 1:09 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 231
Here are some nice shots of this beauty:

https://rrmuseumpa.andornot.com/list?q= ... &p=1&ps=20


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 Post subject: Re: RMNE begins fundraising to restore Sumter & Choctaw #103
PostPosted: Thu Oct 05, 2023 2:04 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:30 pm
Posts: 88
The first three photos in the attachment were taken in Middletown N.Y. not long after 103's delivery. The V-plow was purchased in hopes of mounting on one of the 44 Tonners, after a monster snow storm closed the line down the year before. It took bulldozers and a Erie F unit to get the line reopened. The plow sat there on that siding until 1974, when it was cut up for scrap.


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