Grand Teton:

https://www.nps.gov/grte/planyourvisit/concessions.htm

Meanwhile, General Manager Ramar Vaughan says "SteamTown is an important step in our major, multi-year investment in guest experience and park improvement ... we are excited for all of the new experiences and enhancements that SteamTown will provide and look forward to sharing more details ahead of the official realm opening next summer."

Pity that it's Six Flags America he's talking about. Perhaps ADMIV can keep his ear to the rail, as it were, to see what's coming in the Far West Catonsville area.

Oh, that's just......wrong......

I'm not sure what's worse, googling "Steamtown" and coming up with that, or looking for their SteamTown and finding ours........ either way, lots of dissapointment!

It just astounds me that any company will still choose a name that gets confused on Internet searches in this day and age. Changing the middle T to Caps won't help a bit.

Reminds me of the worst movie of all times for sales: "Closed for Renovations" on the marquis.

Yes, volunteer hours do figure in the evaluation of NPS units. We were constantly told to record and submit volunteer hours as it affected park funding.

The Superintendent of Steamtown prior to immediate past one is now a Deputy Regional Director. There should be plenty of first hand knowledge in that office regarding the situation in Scranton. They spend a lot of time, effort and money to create the "Foundation Document" just five years ago. I personally told her she about the loss of the nostalgia market (unlike in 1986, you probably have to be 80 or older to remember DL&W steam) and 65 to remember Phoebe) and the emergence of new competition-principally in the form of the Reading and Northern, but also the revitalized Stourbridge Line and the Allentown and Auburn) and the clustered ages of the shop crews as threats, long before that was published.



Guess where Debbie Conway came from? CNP is different; the railroad operates as a concessionaire utilizing their own equipment. Also, part of the mandate for Steamtown is to preserve the historic knowledge of the steam era, so they try to do it in house. An incoming provider won't be using their own equipment that they can use, modify sell or scrap as they see fit.

In an ideal world, our elected Congresscritters would have created an organization dedicated to industrial preservation, long before McDade had to turn the screw with a hammer. For that matter, I'd split the NPS even without Steamtown into two separate units-one to deal with natural preservation at places like Yosemite and another to deal with civic preservation. Other than limits on public use, they have more differences than in common.

For that matter while I'm dreaming the new construction locomotives like the Kloke creations, the Tornado and the 5550 might show a different path-newly constructed locomotives constructed according to historic plans, but with modern adaptations. Unfortunately the politicization of Steamtown precluded any possibility of having an RFP issued for new locomotives, assuming that would have been feasible in 1986.

Is there something preventing SNHS from following the same model? Andy Muller could run steam excursions out of Scranton tomorrow. The DL has several Alcos and can scrounge passenger cars if need be. All they need is access to the boarding platform.




How's that been working out?

Other than serious offers were said to be refused and running D-L Alcos is more "Hi, welcome to Steamtown and you'll be riding behind a diesel locomotive today.". Also, why would the R&N want to run East out of Scranton when they are developing a business running from Pittston to Jim Thorpe and they are already sold out through 11/19?

As far as how it's been working out, I'm pretty sure the prior comments require no elaboration.

Right now, there's no incentive and capability for the NPS to run regular steam excursions and I don't see any way to have it contracted out-and good grief man, do you want to be accused of being an agent for some nefarious private interest?

Welcome to the Kobayashi Maru scenario

Remember, they're sold out running four cars, that's it. They're not sold out running 12 or 15 or however many for the Fall Foliage trips out of Reading. The remainder of the year (aside from Iron Horse Rambles) they run the RDCs out of various places, so "sold out" trips, while they sound good, may not often reflect the actual volumes of how popular it is or could be.

It's like the Virginia Scenic Railway - they are sold out of their regular trips into November. That sounds amazing - but they only run with one car and a diesel. Not as amazing as you initially thought (but still very nice).

Back to my original point - let's say Andy does want to run steam trips from Scranton or Pittston to the Delaware Water Gap as operator for Steamtown. There's the minor issue of the PNRRA lawsuit and reportedly bad feelings still going on from that...

Good point, I should have been more specific instead of simply using the term "developing". However let's say that that they can extend that to six coaches. Typically, that's about 360 riders. The R&N is charging $40-so the train is worth $14K in revenue -(keep on mind that there's a chance to stretch your legs at JT and see some interesting things so the destination is superior). Is $14K a week enough to bid on a contract.

There's not nearly enough money for the deferred maintenance backlog if the contract includes maintenance and that means relying on an NPS shop that's depleted by departures.

I have not discussed this at all with Andy Muller but I know him well and can testify that he avoids getting involved in ANY situation wherein it involves dealing with a government entity if humanly possible.

He has repeatedly gone on the record stating that the Scranton -DWG freight operation should be transferred into the private sector as it is a profitable business being owned by a public entity thus using tax dollars to compete with private enterprise.

Between that and his aversion to anything gummit I'd guess that the chances of Andy Muller being interested in becoming a DO for Steamtown are less than zero.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

You said that CNP is different. I am pointing out that the pieces are all there for the same model. Likely? No. Possible? Sure.

SNHS is unable or unwilling to maintain the capability of mainline steam. I see no reason to allow that to be a hurdle. Politics change, companies are sold, and stalwarts pass away. Just because it won’t work today doesn’t mean it won’t work tomorrow.

I am a cheerleader for steam on the Pocono main. I have no favorites, and no dogs in the race. If supporting one party over another will achieve that goal, then I’ll back that entity.

Steamtown HAS access to miles of main, all maintained by a private entity. Steamtown HAS a roundhouse, yard and backshop with historical provenance in a (semi)metro setting with easy access to several east coast hubs. Steamtown HAS several locomotives of a suitable size for mainline operation and a fleet of passenger cars already on site. Steamtown HAS a multi-million dollar annual budget and access to additional federal funds. And, Steamtown HAD a group of dedicated volunteers, and still has a “friends of” group.

SHNS has so much more than many other groups, yet they are still the gang who can’t shoot straight. If the model doesn’t work, it’s time to change the model. If CNP can make work it within the park service regs, then SNHS can, too.

I'm not going to convince you. Good luck, I hope I'm wrong.

The main difference of note - NPS also owns the track that CVSR runs on. Can’t say the same running out of Scranton.

For now. Let’s see what happens when Amtrak comes to town.