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 Post subject: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 1:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3971
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Some good news from Hagerstown.

She's been well guarded over the years, but she can use some attention.

https://www.heraldmailmedia.com/story/n ... jLxmYU-5z0


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2477
.


Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2021 10:03 pm
Posts: 94
Location: Southeast PA
Can someone summarize the article?

It's behind a paywall.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Sat Nov 04, 2023 5:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2874
PRR8063 wrote:
Can someone summarize the article?

It's behind a paywall.


It wasn't for me, but I live 3000 miles away.

"LOCAL
The last K2 steam engine in existence is in Hagerstown City Park. It's getting a makeover
Marlayna Scire
The Herald-Mail

A piece of Hagerstown's railroading history has been sitting in City Park for 70 years. Now, it's going to get a makeover and new pavilion to make it more accessible to the public.

The renovations that are to take place in spring will protect it from weather and other natural elements, plus add a concrete wheelchair ramp for better accessibility, said Kay Omer, the city's recreation assistant.

"Nothing will be done to alter the locomotive, but better coverage and new paint allowing the restoration to last longer," said Kevin Kneer, senior project architect for Proffitt & Associates, the city's consultant on the project.
Engine 202's current pavilion only covers about half of the locomotive and accompanying cars. Renovations planned to start in the spring call for a better pavilion that is ADA accessible.
How did the engine get to City Park?

Engine 202 was built in 1912 by the Baldwin Locomotive Works. At 77 feet and 415,000 pounds, it was one of nine K2 type engines made, according to Kneer.

The engine operated on the Western Maryland Railway carrying passengers and baggage between Baltimore and Cumberland.

In 1947, K2 engines were changed from burning coal to burning oil to accommodate pollution standards in places like Baltimore.

In 1953, Engine 202 was retired and donated to the city of Hagerstown. The rest of the K2 engines were scraped due to the change from oil-burning to desiel operation. Engine 202 is the only one left, Kneer said.

It has been in the back corner of Hagerstown City Park ever since at the Train Hub exhibit. Recognized as a historical site, there have been "efforts in renovating made in the past, but were unsuccessful," Kneer said.
The renovation includes repairing chipped paint and rusting hardware that will restore engine 202 to look as it did when it was donated back in 1952.
Who's paying for the renovations?

Renovation, expected to wrap up in time for reopening next winter, will be paid for by the federal government, the state and the city, Kneer said. The U.S. Department of Transportation and Maryland Department of Transportation will pick up 80% of the $790,000 price tag and 20% is city matching funds.

There are two parts to the project, Kneer said.

Part of the work will involve moving the locomotive forward for more visibility and creating a new display area.

"This is the first time he will be moved in 14 years," Omer said.

The second part will be restoration of the locomotive itself. That involves removing the paint and repainting, as well as removing rust erosion.
Erosion is seen on the side of Engine 202 in Hagerstown City Park recently. The erosion will be repaired as part of a renovation project that will give the old engine a new paint job and a new accessible pavilion.

New lettering and stenciling will be done to the side of the locomotive, Kneer said.

"Our intent is to put some parts that have been missing back together," said Kneer.

That includes the side sheet metal jacket. "This is what holds heat into the locomotive, it's an attractive ornamental piece," said Kneer.

A new pavilion will protect the renovated locomotive better than the previous one.

"The pavilion now has no natural light and a very low roof," said Kneer."


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:10 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 8:50 pm
Posts: 154
Location: MD
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Good.

I had consulted with Kevin a little bit on this cosmetic restoration prior to my retirement, visiting the #202 once.

I had visited her initially in 1982 (or 3), shortly after Huber Leath turned down Hagerstown's offer to sell her to SRC for $1 (what in the Hell was he thinking?), when she was in a condition that looked like she was ready to be filled with water and the fire lit. Since then, I understand that a volunteer group had fired her up at least once where she sits. However, since then she has been stripped of jacketing and insulation (good), as well as a number of parts and fittings, none of which the people currently involved knew anything about (bad).

Many of her cab fittings were missing, as were her injectors, and worst of all, her large top check valve casting. I strongly advised the people there to search out any members of the volunteer group who may still be alive to ask them where these parts are.

Not only will these missing parts detract from her cosmetic appearance, but they will also make any future return to operation that much more difficult and expensive. I know that the chances of her returning to service are slim at best, but then every locomotive that has returned to service in the last 15 or twenty years is one that I was sure would never run again.

If anyone reading this post knows who's garage #202's fittings are gathering dust in, please contact Kevin so they can be returned to where they belong.

Kelly,

I was directly involved with the cosmetic restoration performed in 2008-2009. With very limited resources we were able to get 202 into an as-retired state, looking almost exactly as she did when she was placed in the park in the 50's. The only major exception was the boiler jacketing, which had been replaced with excess aluminum from Fairchild Aircraft. At the time of the cosmetic restoration, the city did not want to remove that aluminum jacketing so it stayed. After a couple of more years it became apparent that the jacketing was quickly deteriorating, allowing moisture in and soaking the insulation inside. In order to remove the jacketing, much of the piping and appliances had to be either loosened or removed. Everything removed from 202 was labeled, inventoried, and either locked in the caboose behind it or locked in the garage on site next to the museum building. As soon as the jacketing was removed, the city decided that it no longer needed volunteers and they were dismissed. At that point 202 sat with little to no security, especially in the off-season, for years.

I want to reiterate... no volunteers that worked on 202 during the 2008-2009 restoration have any parts of 202 "gathering dust in their garage". During my years with 202 I can only think of 2 parts of 202 that ever left the premises(except for boiler insulation and broken fire bricks). 1. 202's whistle was taken to Williams Grove and blown on PRR 643 in order to generate a recording that could be played in the museum. This was done with the permission of the director of the park and the whistle was promptly returned to the museum the next day. 2. There was one extremely worn nut that held part of the brass smokebox handrail on. It was so worn from cinders/steam/etc.. that it would no longer thread onto the bolt. The nut was replaced and today the original worn nut sits in my desk drawer. If the city wants it back I am happy to give it to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
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Last edited by Kelly Anderson on Sun Aug 18, 2024 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2023 7:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1325
Location: Pacific, MO
Back when we had just finished 1522 someone from over there contacted me and asked lots of questions about firing up an oil burner, etc.
Shame 202 didn't sneak through and get running back then. Nice engine.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 1:39 am 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 39
Just a thought. Would it be feasible to do an analysis of the costs to put 202 back into service? The scenario I envision is to trade 202 with WMSR for their 734 (especially if the cost to restore 734 outweighs the cost to rehab 202). WMSR has resorted to a push-pull operation with 1309, with the diesel leading the train back to Cumberland. Why not have the 202 as the pusher enroute to Frostburg, leading the train back to Cumberland?

The above scenario could solve several problems. Hagerstown would still have a locomotive to exhibit. It would now be the 734 instead of the 202. WMSR would hopefully spend less on putting a 2nd steam locomotive in service. While it does not have the tractive effort of the 734, it can be used as a helper Westbound and a lead locomotive Eastbound in the push-pull operation. It can also be used for the dinner train, even if it has to have a diesel helper (the dinner train is a push-pull operation anyway)

Hopefully, the WMSR can capitalize on using an original MM engine in its marketing. The fact that it is an oil burner can give WMSR the potential for positive publicity (eg burning waste oil from Mickey-D as an environmental statement)


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 11:37 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Byers, Colorado
Much as I'd rather see #202 than a diesel, she doesn't have dynamic brakes.

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who wants to fix up an old locomotive.

Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 12:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12145
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
MJM-1 wrote:
Just a thought. Would it be feasible to do an analysis of the costs to put 202 back into service? The scenario I envision is to trade 202 with WMSR for their 734 (especially if the cost to restore 734 outweighs the cost to rehab 202). WMSR has resorted to a push-pull operation with 1309, with the diesel leading the train back to Cumberland. Why not have the 202 as the pusher enroute to Frostburg, leading the train back to Cumberland?

The above scenario could solve several problems. Hagerstown would still have a locomotive to exhibit. It would now be the 734 instead of the 202. WMSR would hopefully spend less on putting a 2nd steam locomotive in service. While it does not have the tractive effort of the 734, it can be used as a helper Westbound and a lead locomotive Eastbound in the push-pull operation. It can also be used for the dinner train, even if it has to have a diesel helper (the dinner train is a push-pull operation anyway)

Hopefully, the WMSR can capitalize on using an original MM engine in its marketing. The fact that it is an oil burner can give WMSR the potential for positive publicity (eg burning waste oil from Mickey-D as an environmental statement)

On top of the multitude of operational reasons to be discussed, the fact is that efforts to acquire the 202 for operation out of Cumberland date all the way back to the origin of the WMSR as a tourist operation in the late 1980s, and were severely rebuffed by Hagerstown officials back then.

Like many other "professional" tourist operations, the WMSR figured out long ago, back in the Showalter days, that you need an ability to run longer, heavier trains to make money. Thus, the acquisition of 1309, the diesels, etc. 202 wouldn't help that.

Let's be blunt about another thing: We all thought this "helper" thing on the back was temporary, that the RR was going to put that turntable back in use and put a steamer back on the forward end each way like the 734 days. That hasn't happened. And it looks like the RR has gotten too "addicted" to the nice idea of dynamic brakes on grades (see also: Grand Canyon Railway) to go back to the old ways. Sure, I'd love nothing better than to see a photo charter on the WMSR with 202, a couple coaches, and the WM business car on the rear. But that ain't happening.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 5:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
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Agreed. " If wishes were fishes we could all ........" Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2023 6:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
Or “Wish in one hand…”.

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Turner of Wrenches, Drawer of Things


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:12 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 39
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
On top of the multitude of operational reasons to be discussed, the fact is that efforts to acquire the 202 for operation out of Cumberland date all the way back to the origin of the WMSR as a tourist operation in the late 1980s, and were severely rebuffed by Hagerstown officials back then.

That is why I recommended a "trade" between WMSR and Hagerstown. I believe the politicians would not care which locomotive was displayed in the city park, as long as it was in Western Maryland colors

Like many other "professional" tourist operations, the WMSR figured out long ago, back in the Showalter days, that you need an ability to run longer, heavier trains to make money. Thus, the acquisition of 1309, the diesels, etc. 202 wouldn't help that.

What if 202 pulled the train westbound and 1309 acted as the pusher? Would the 1309 be heavy enough to bring the train downgrade back to Cumberland? WMSR is investigating the feasibility of restoring 734. How expensive is that going to be? Having been "brought up" in the Treasury /Finance end of the railroad business, I would investigate the relative costs of rebuilding 734 vs 202 and factor in any added operational expenses of using a steam locomotive as a pusher instead of a diesel. To be conservative, I would not factor in any gains from having 2 steam locomotives operational at one time. I wonder if we have enough information available from Messrs Anderson and Alcoguy to do a back of the envelope estimate of rehab costs. I believe a positve Net Present Value of all the cash flows would not be ignored by WMSR management.



Mike Martino


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 10:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12145
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
MJM-1 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
On top of the multitude of operational reasons to be discussed, the fact is that efforts to acquire the 202 for operation out of Cumberland date all the way back to the origin of the WMSR as a tourist operation in the late 1980s, and were severely rebuffed by Hagerstown officials back then.

That is why I recommended a "trade" between WMSR and Hagerstown. I believe the politicians would not care which locomotive was displayed in the city park, as long as it was in Western Maryland colors

You only need one article in the Hagerstown Herald-Mail about the "con job" that was being pulled by the WMSR on the "city fathers" to render that "scam on history" moot.


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 Post subject: Re: Western Maryland 202
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2023 11:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:50 pm
Posts: 39
Has there always been bad blood between the WMSR and the city of Hagerstown? Would the change in management at the WMSR make any difference?


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