Look, you're the one citing "preservation and historical atmosphere being lost" and all that.

The reality is that in 2023, just about ANY historic preservation anywhere--from fountain pens to antique cars to Colonial Williamsburg to the East Broad Top to the National Archives--revolves around a degree of compromise and adaptation, for the safety of both the things being preserved and the people for whom they are ostensibly being preserved.

The C&TS train I rode had an electric generator cleverly stashed away under a vestibule. It also had a power wheelchair lift that I saw used at three of the four official stops on the run. On that alone, the "authentic experience" is "ruined." And I'm pretty sure the steam locos don't have asbestos lagging/wrap anymore.

We can't get the leaded ethyl gasoline old car engines depended on for lubrication/valve wear prevention anymore. Do we just ban the operation of any car made before 1975 or whatever?

It may be the National Archives or the Library of Congress, but I have to jump over MAJOR hurdles to access a lot of what is ostensibly being "saved for the public." It was two days and a background check to get access to the LoC collections even before 9-11-2001.

The fact was that in the old days, "life was cheap." You never saw outdoors pictures around Pittsburgh or Gary because of the constant smog from steel mills and factories. Steam locos burned down crops and forests almost routinely. People spent thirty or forty years, sometimes on 12-hour days or longer, in back-breaking, mundane careers and then retired when injured or when black lung disease, asbestosis, white lung disease, etc. gave them a couple years at best in retirement, and moreover you smoked whether or not you ever lit up a cigarette or cigar.

And I have seriously had trained scientists make the case, convincingly even to me, that "coal and oil are far too valuable as global petrochemical stock to ever set a match to in a planetary sense, but until we go mass nuclear adoption, it's what we have to sustain an industrial economy." European steam rail preservation is being sustained, for the moment, on coal imported from Poland and Russia. And soon it'll be our turn--I doubt the EBT is still burning Broad Top strip mine runnings.

We have MUCH bigger issues to worry about than "it has to be all steam all the time or it's ruined."

Wow… are you okay?

Except it wasn’t all steam. Even in the days of the Rio Grande there were diesels that assisted in operation, like the army diesel, and even the standard gauge diesels from Alamosa to Antonito. And even before acquiring this unit from the Wp&Y, they’ve used a couple of center cab diesels at points.

You’re just placing a frankly weird level of emphasis on the C&TS being “all steam”. Why does it matter? What benefit does the operation have for being “all steam”? Is there like a reward or something? What’s being lost here with having a suitable form of backup power, or a diesel switcher meandering in the background? The answer is simple; nothing.

it’s 2023. Soon to be 2024, and the youngest authentic steam locomotives operating in the US are close to 75 years old. The youngest on the C&TS and the D&S are at or close to approaching 100 years old within the next decade. These are historic, irreplaceable assets, and it’s a lot more practical for said organizations to make some modern concessions by having diesels, instead of potentially damaging a steam locomotive by forcing an all steam operation for everything. Can’t have a situation like in 1999 when C&TS 484 derailed while clearing the line.

I always thought it was one of the reasons that C&TS (and until a few years ago.. D&S as well) was special. I mean obviously will still be a great place, just like Durango, but seems a little less so.

But I guess I'm just weird :) who knew... a weird guy on a foamer board? haha

So I guess we just going to Ignore the two diesel locomotives from the Oahu Railway number 19 and 15 that been happy working for C&TS.

I would hope they would get some more Diesels from WP&Y, for flexibility of operations.

What kills me is the fake outrage from the keyboard warriors on boards like this. With exception of big events the Iron Horse round up, Tourist railroads target market is not hardcore railfans but the general public. So finding a balance in your operation is key.

Those aren’t road engines. Switching with steam would indeed be even more authentic though.

Has the C&TS been out of balance for the past 50 years?

For argument's sake, did the Rio Grande narrow gauge operation ever have small steam switchers for places like Durango and Chama? If so, what kind, and are any similar ones that are not so historic available to use for yard and maintenance duties to take the load off the MIkes?

That's not the issue at hand.

They need a locomotive (or two!) with enough power and range available any time trains run to assist or rescue a broken-down train, should it be necessary. The GE center-cabs don't have enough power (supposedly). Thus, the (locomotive-consuming and expensive) practice of keeping another steamer hot and ready to go at each end of the line every time the trains run.

The switchers are perfect for the (probably somewhat rare) occasion when they're switching the shops or yard trackage. But they got the WP&Y loco for a REASON. (Never mind whether they can keep the vintage GEs running with the well-documented problems of the shortage of 44-tonner parts....)

The new diesel is only needed for the Chama side, the current switchers can handle the rescue of a train on the Antonito side.

While not "the issue at hand" I am also interested in what the D&RGW used for switching and yard work back in the day.

Because of the oil embargo, the C&TS's 1975 season was just diesel #19 pulling turns from atop Cumbres to Osier or Sublette.

Russ Sperry posted a picture of a 1975 C&TS train in this NGDF thread: C&TSRR: #19 Not Taking Water at Cumbres in '75 . . .

What everyone is forgetting about is this while it's nice that for decades both of these tourist railroads have been for the most part 100 percent steam powered. The problem with this is normal wear and tear on things like driver tires the firebox the boiler itself. There's a reason why 844 has 838 sitting in the Cheyenne roundhouse next to her. If and when her boiler needs replaced they'll already have it same with drivers main rods and just about everything else. Hell if needed I'd wager money that if 844 cracked a frame they'd use 838s for a replacement.

Just look at what Mid Continent has gone through trying to get 1385 backup and running it's been over 20 years. They literally had a choice to make when they made it band aid the old worn out 100 year old boiler or get a new one made. These boilers don't last forever just look at 1361 what's it now 35 years of fits and starts before they finally got a good plan. Just because these places are getting a diesel locomotive doesn't mean their giving up on their steam engines. Their trying to extend the lifetime they have left before they are forced to make massive amounts of capital investments in things like drivers boilers fireboxes frames tenders and who knows what else. It will cost these places millions of dollars to do these things. But if running a diesel locomotive can put that off for 10 15 years per locomotive then it would make it easier for them to afford to pay for the repairs that are going to be incoming.

That’s not the reason either operation has diesels. Didn’t Durango go back to all steam this year now that they finished the oil conversions?

Cumbres wants a diesel to have as backup at Chama, and for work trains. They just don’t want to waste boiler days for a backup and for non-revenue maintenance.

I might be sad to lose any steam to diesel but I also know the reality haha. Comparing either of the Colorado operations to mid-continent is like comparing NS to your local 3 mile shortline. These are the real-deal operations each with an entire fleet of operational steam.