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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 4:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 211
Thanks for posting the color chart.

I called the B&O museum and left a voice for their receptionist. Hopefully someone will call me back with some information.


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 5:48 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 211
NVPete wrote:
That paint is breaking up like lacquer.

The fourth picture looks like Lettuce Green and the fifth, Jade Green. I see what could be French Gray there also but I'm not saying anything about those three different ivories... LOL


Is that a Dupont color chart?


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Fri Jan 12, 2024 7:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
Yup. Duco was Dupont nitrocellulose lacquer. Those numbers do not cross to any modern equivalents. When they changed formulations, the number system changed. Axalta bought that division and has their own number system though I think the late Dupont numbers may still cross to Axalta. Dunno.

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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:26 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Annville, PA
I've seen both the pre-war and war emergency versions of that Duco pamphlet while searching for chips for the Alternative Examples thread and there's only a couple colors missing from the war emergency selection. Both of those do pop up on eBay from time to time so I'll keep an eye out for one.

The men's lounge in the civilian Goliad car looks like it could be Powder Blue or maybe Turquoise.

AutoColorLibrary does have some military paint charts posted but I'm not really sure if they would apply in this case being that the troop sleepers were still owned by Pullman, except for perhaps the maroon-colored decks...

https://www.autocolorlibrary.com/pages/military-colors


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 11:59 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Annville, PA
Guitar guys are somewhat nuts about getting nitrocellulose lacquer on their instruments. This is generally how it cracks up when applied to wooden surfaces, most likely due to constant humidity-related expansion and contraction...


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 5:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
You're correct on nitro finishes on wood with wide swings in temperature and humidity. Nitro never really absolutely cures depending on thickness. It cures from the outside in so it gasses off exponentially slower over time. Nitro on steel works as the steel expands less and doesn't absorb humidity. Some of my older guitars have nitro and they still look great as they've been well cared for though the finish does yellow/darken over time.

Back to the subject at hand, I wouldn't think they'd use nitro on the wood interiors of these cars but you'd never know unless you had it analyzed.

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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:29 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Annville, PA
Hey, females and others are still painting their nails with it.

See how that paint is ridging along the edges of the cracks just like on the guitar, Eric? I'm wondering if that's an identifiable characteristic...


Attachments:
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Last edited by NVPete on Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 10:51 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Annville, PA
This is what nitrocellulose lacquer looks like when it splits apart on metal, caused more by physical and thermal stress and less by moisture, similar to the cracking as seen on the steel bulkheads of the civilian sleepers...


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2053
Location: New Franklin, OH
On the first image, IIRC, oil based paints are enamels. They'll do the same thing if any moisture gets into substrate so the blistering at cracks isn't necessarily an identifier for nitro. Actually, same with most paints and coatings.

As for the car image, I'd wager that cracking was due to an application and/or prep error. Typical nitro failure looks more like checking. As mentioned above about curing, the top surface is actually harder than what's underneath so the checking is usually just on the surface unless really severe and goes all the way through the finish.

Disclaimer: I'm not a finish expert but I do know enough to stay out of most trouble. But not all...

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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper interior colors
PostPosted: Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 13, 2019 1:53 pm
Posts: 1400
Location: Annville, PA
"Amateur/Professional Peeling Paint Forensic Analyst". LOL

I know exactly what a cracked and bubbling shellac finish looks like because I have it all over my old computer desk. ;)


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