Good history and several photos of this 2-10-4, now stored at Sacramento.

http://atsf.railfan.net/atsfpres/atsf5021.html
ryarger@rypn.org

> Good history and several photos of this
> 2-10-4, now stored at Sacramento.

Why Santa Fe would hold on to an engine for decades, keeping it under cover and exercising the bearings regularly only to give it to CSRM that had no facilities for proper storage is beyond my comprehension. Almost as sad as yellowstone 229 in Twin Harbours MN, being yanked out of her Proctor roundhouse home to be placed on display to replace her sister who had rotted out.

> Why Santa Fe would hold on to an engine for
> decades, keeping it under cover and
> exercising the bearings regularly only to
> give it to CSRM that had no facilities for
> proper storage is beyond my comprehension.
> Almost as sad as yellowstone 229 in Twin
> Harbours MN, being yanked out of her Proctor
> roundhouse home to be placed on display to
> replace her sister who had rotted out.

Will someone please confirm that I just read what I thought I just read:

Someone is *complaining* because one of the most massive and distinctive steam locomotives in American history was donated to a *railroad museum*, rather than left inaccessible on railroad property........

Twist this around for a moment. Suppose, just suppose, that some current BNSF manager, totally clueless and with no knowledge of the background involved, swept through the area where these things (remember, there were a bunch of diesels as well) were stored (Albuquerque? Belen?), saw them as huge potential liabilities and "attractive nuisances", and called in the scrappers? THEN what would we be complaining about?

As I recall, this equipment was formerly stashed in the Santa Fe Albuquerque Shops. (I could be wrong....) Having just run through Albuquerque (and nearby Las Vegas, with its surviving ATSF roundhouse) on Amtrak last week, I can assure you that continued storage in what is now a drafty, shell-shocked ruin is not necessarily any better than rusting away at Sacramento (well, salt air as opposed to desert drought.....). At least, being under some form of "bureaucratic" administration, it will probably take a major Act of God Or Greater to scrap or dispose of the 5021, unlike being at the mercy of the sentimentality of a corporation. (Please note: I do not have any cause to think 5021 or any of the Santa Fe collection was ever in jeopardy under ATSF/BNSF management. I just know administrations of railroads can change. I also am not defending the CSRM, but as far as I know they're not trying to convert the 5021 into a Starbucks, either....)


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

The point about why it went to a museum that would store it outside is well taken and the answer may as simple that in 1986 the need for inside climate controlled storage was not recognized as the need it is today. Once museums started having to repaint the same item for a second time people generally came to the conclusion that inside storage would be better.

tcox@parknet.pmh.org

> Why Santa Fe would hold on to an engine for
> decades, keeping it under cover and
> exercising the bearings regularly only to
> give it to CSRM that had no facilities for
> proper storage is beyond my comprehension.
> Almost as sad as yellowstone 229 in Twin
> Harbours MN, being yanked out of her Proctor
> roundhouse home to be placed on display to
> replace her sister who had rotted out.
As I seem to recall this transaction took place during the ATSF/SP merger talks. New management was reviewing rosters and wanted to know what all of that old stuff was kept for. The quickest answer given was that it was for donation to Sacramento and the word was given to get that stuff out of here. The Museum has finally reconstructed the the trackwork between the SP buildings they're leasing from the UP so that the rolling stock stored outside can be moved inside.

Let me clarify my position, so that there is less room for doubt on where I stand on this one. CSRM is a world class museum, and I am not unapposed to them having the AT&SF historical collection. However what I take issue with, is having two engines (two of the largest engines of their type ever built) which are in a remarkable state of completeness, and although dusty and in need of a spit shine pretty much in the same condition they were put away in when Santa Fe ceased operations left outside unprotected without so much as a tarp. I have an email from Walter Gray somewhere stating that the engines have lost cab items and other "jewels" since arriving at CSRM, so now these once complete engines are not complete anymore. I would have thought that these engines would have been treated better and certainly deserved protection from vandals and thieves.

Of course in my perfect world they would have gone to Redondo to join 3751, and had a neat museum complete with roundhouse, turntable etc, but of course as we know, redondo is now a memory, and 3751 seeks a better home.

Have a look at the attached picture and take a look at 5021 and 2925 sitting in the Belen roundhouse 20 years ago. It was joked by roundhouse staff that if they ever ran short of power, they still had two in reserve that needed only a little warm water to make them go.

> Will someone please confirm that I just read
> what I thought I just read:

> Someone is *complaining* because one of the
> most massive and distinctive steam
> locomotives in American history was donated
> to a *railroad museum*, rather than left
> inaccessible on railroad property........

> Twist this around for a moment. Suppose,
> just suppose, that some current BNSF
> manager, totally clueless and with no
> knowledge of the background involved, swept
> through the area where these things
> (remember, there were a bunch of diesels as
> well) were stored (Albuquerque? Belen?), saw
> them as huge potential liabilities and
> "attractive nuisances", and called
> in the scrappers? THEN what would we be
> complaining about?

> As I recall, this equipment was formerly
> stashed in the Santa Fe Albuquerque Shops.
> (I could be wrong....) Having just run
> through Albuquerque (and nearby Las Vegas,
> with its surviving ATSF roundhouse) on
> Amtrak last week, I can assure you that
> continued storage in what is now a drafty,
> shell-shocked ruin is not necessarily any
> better than rusting away at Sacramento
> (well, salt air as opposed to desert
> drought.....). At least, being under some
> form of "bureaucratic"
> administration, it will probably take a
> major Act of God Or Greater to scrap or
> dispose of the 5021, unlike being at the
> mercy of the sentimentality of a
> corporation. (Please note: I do not have any
> cause to think 5021 or any of the Santa Fe
> collection was ever in jeopardy under
> ATSF/BNSF management. I just know
> administrations of railroads can change. I
> also am not defending the CSRM, but as far
> as I know they're not trying to convert the
> 5021 into a Starbucks, either....)


rently lost santa fe roundhouses

It would have been interesting some time before their donation to CSRM in 1986 to see how little (or how much) work it would have taken to get one of these roundhouse-stored somewhat regularly-maintained steamers operational. A thorough evaluation of their structural/mechanical condition at the time of donation would have been interesting to consider at least. Alas, we'll never know. Too bad Santa Fe didn't follow through on their plans to make one operational for their own steam program.

davew833@yahoo.com

Actually the 2925 was evaluated as an excursion engine by Santa Fe and later by the Freedom train folks. I'm not sure what the results were though, but you're not too far off in your thinking.

> It would have been interesting some time
> before their donation to CSRM in 1986 to see
> how little (or how much) work it would have
> taken to get one of these roundhouse-stored
> somewhat regularly-maintained steamers
> operational. A thorough evaluation of their
> structural/mechanical condition at the time
> of donation would have been interesting to
> consider at least. Alas, we'll never know.
> Too bad Santa Fe didn't follow through on
> their plans to make one operational for
> their own steam program.


rently lost santa fe roundhouses

> Actually the 2925 was evaluated as an
> excursion engine by Santa Fe and later by
> the Freedom train folks. I'm not sure what
> the results were though, but you're not too
> far off in your thinking.

I remember seeing both the 2925 and the 5021 in Belen as a youth. They looked well cared for at the time,and some of the engineers who worked in the pool that had run them in regular service were still plentiful and regaled many stories about them to an impressionable youth.
A few years later,I saw 2925 in Cleburne. One of the foremen said that he would not be afraid to throw a match in her right then!

kbcotton@flash.net