Has anyone set up a whistle blow ? I'm interested in learning what kind of prep and minimum reqts are to set one up using a locomotive as steam source. What type of manifold, pipe sizes, etc. Sound ordinances ? Is Proximity to live rail ( I imagine it would scare the heck out of an operating crew to be hearing foreign signals) an issue ?

staybolt@bellsouth.net

I'm involved with a horn and whistle collecting group (never been any formal organization, just subscribe to "Horn & Whistle" Magazine) whose members have done this kind of thing often--or as often as they can get away with.

Cass Scenic Railroad is perhaps the most prepared and experienced, with a steam manifold somewhere in storage and at least one major whistle collector in their active employ. You might inquire with them for suggestions and pointers.

Some general pointers:
* One can't just go up and hook up piping to a steam locomotive. The manifold must be made of the proper material and certified as up to boiler code. This hampers the practice significantly, although the whistle-collector network can probably find a pre-existing manifold to volunteer for the purpose.

* The steam boiler must be up to the task. In the case of bigger whistles, such as Liberty Ship whistles and steamboat whistles, the steam exhausted will tax the capacity of even the biggest Shay. If possible, find the biggest steam locomotive possible as a steam source--or better yet, the Liberty Ship John W. Brown! A traction engine won't cut it for bigger whistles--it'll be like bringing a Model T to a monster truck pull. In addition, you will be working a steam fireman full-time.

* You can blow steam on compressed air, but because air doesn't have the expansive capacity of steam, you lose in tonal quality and sheer capacity. (The "blowing" of the salvaged Titanic's whistle a few years ago was a total joke as a result--it was like a person trying to inflate the Hindenberg with lung power.) Also, air-only whistle blows go over about as well among the steam fraternity as, say, the diesel-pulled Stone Mountain trains with a steamer on the point, or diesel helpers assisting a main-line steam excursion.

*There WILL be a bewildering variety of fittings and adapters necessary, and many store-bought adapters are not suitable due to zinc or other finishings flaking off or other "contamination". Again, whistle collectors know this, and usually the whistles come accompanied with an equally bewildering array of adapters. Nevertheless, in all probability the fitting you need won't appear, or will get lost.

* Do you want air horns to appear as well? Compressed air is easier to manage, but again requires a manifold, reservoir, and compressor. Shop compressors and truck-mounted compressors can handle a few horns, but any more and you're going to require a BIG tank and a rental compressor of the style that typically runs jackhammers. Again, the horn network can locate those for you if you're persistent and providing the opportunity for fun.

* Noise ordinances, etc. vary from place to place. Let's face it, you're going to make a LOT of racket. Cass is in the middle of nowhere; don't expect to try this in, say, downtown Atlanta. The folks at the Railroaders Memorial Museum in downtown Altoona have held a Horn & Whistle Fair; you can ask them for their experiences. (They seemed to get an equal mix of complaints and praise when I was there.) Your best defense is PLENTY of advance publicity in the community--perhaps direct mailings to the immediate neighbors. In addition, regulate the blowings carefully. One classic example would be demonstrations on the hour, with the demonstrations lasting 5-15 minutes, then quiet for the rest of the hour. Or another proposal would be steam on the hour and air horns on the half-hour, each for about 5 minutes.

*Because the value of steam whistles and air horns have shot up in recent years, collectors are known to be somewhat of a reclusive and even secretive lot. I know of two collections worth over a million dollars each if they were on the open market; you don't brazenly advertise the presence of such a collection. However, once again, networking in the right circles will find you the people you want and need. Try the Yahoo Group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Horn_Whistle/ (one of several "competing" Yahoo groups in the field, with others being Train Horns, etc.)

*The most informative steam whistle web site seems to be down for the moment; I am providing a link to another site for preliminary introduction to the hobby for you and yours. It belongs to one active participant of the hobby in Texas, who comes complete with compressor-equipped display wagon (pictured).

One steam whistle site

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Well I wish I could find a picture of it, but I after MSR&LHA web site got reorginized I think they did away with the pictures of the whistle manifold. Basicly, The manifold at Cass was built and is owned by MSRLHA. The design is about a 4 inch pipe in the shape of a U at the base of the U is where a steam connection comes in via a 2 inch (roughly) flexable connection. It has couplings welded to it with ball valves, sizes vary from 1/2" to some where around 2".
Both legs of the U have a 3/8" drain to allow water to run out.
Keep in mind all my pipe sizes are done from memory, and for more info contact Grady Smith at locoguy@charter.net

The steam supply is easy on a shay just undo the universal by the syphon and hook up, I don't think many locomotives have that ablity though.

Ben

btrue@vt.edu

Hello All:

> Some general pointers:
> * One can't just go up and hook up piping to
> a steam locomotive. The manifold must be
> made of the proper material and certified as
> up to boiler code. This hampers the practice
> significantly, although the
> whistle-collector network can probably find
> a pre-existing manifold to volunteer for the
> purpose.

Steam piping falls under the ASME B31.1 Power Piping Code. Piping is generally A105 and malleable iron fittings with ratings to 300# for saturated steam are generally available. Above 300#, or with superheated steam, forged fittings should be used.

Screw end piping can be assembled without certification.

Welded piping will require a qualified welding procedure specification and a welder qualified to that procedure. Generally, NDE is recommended for welds; however, under certain circumstances the MAWP of the piping can be derated if no or spot NDE is used.

A hydrostatic test of the completed piping system is required at 150% of MAWP.

I operate and maintain the steam display, including the steam whistle display at the Age of Steam in Dallas. Please contact me off list if you would like some more information on setting up a steam whistle display.

> * You can blow steam on compressed air, but
> because air doesn't have the expansive
> capacity of steam, you lose in tonal quality
> and sheer capacity. (The "blowing"
> of the salvaged Titanic's whistle a few
> years ago was a total joke as a result--it
> was like a person trying to inflate the
> Hindenberg with lung power.) Also, air-only
> whistle blows go over about as well among
> the steam fraternity as, say, the
> diesel-pulled Stone Mountain trains with a
> steamer on the point, or diesel helpers
> assisting a main-line steam excursion.

Tonal quality of whistles are different when sounded on compressed air versus steam. Even steam at different pressures will have different tonal qualities. This is due to the speed of sound in the different media at different temperatures.

As far as the Titanic whistle blow a few years ago, I need to disagree with you. I was the engineer who did the calculations and coordination to sound the replica Titanic whistle chime set in Dallas. Holman Boiler Works of Dallas provided the boiler and fabricated the piping and control systems. We used a 300 boiler Hp saturated steam boiler with a 6 inch supply line and control valve.

We sounded the chime set in front of Dallas City Hall on the day that the Ttitanic sank. The whistle was sounded by then Mayor Ron Kirk and actress Lea Thompson. We managed to rattle quite a few windows in downtown Dallas.

We then moved the entire set up to Grapevine Mills Mall for further demonstrations.

When we were done at Grapevine Mills Mall, we had quite a bit of fun trying the chime set at different pressures. We found out that the chime set was quite a bit more melodious at lower pressures.

In our shop tests, the SPL was in excess of 135 dBA. We had to limit the SPL to about 110 dBA at the Dallas City Hall.

The pressure on salvaged chime set was limited due to some cracks in the bells. The sounding of the replica set in the northeast was a bit of a dud. SFX Entertainment was very concerned that the event in Dallas would go well.

SFX Entertainment was very satisified with the event in Dallas.

No rant, no flame, just setting the record straight.

Sincerely Yours;

Paul Kurilecz, M.S., P.E.
Texas Registration: 66814
Texas Engineering Firm Registration: 563

.


UK Heritage Railways
pkurilecz@yahoo.com

Used to have regular whistle toots in the hills of central Ohio. Steam was furnished by a 25hp boiler that ran a sawmill during working hours, and provided the slab wood for fuel. I don't remember the manifold used but we would be able to accomodate just about any english threaded whistle from a peanut to a steamboat. The only problem we had was the cows in the neighborhood would give cottage cheese for a coupla days after.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

I think the oldest Whistle blow around is put on by Conrad Milsner at the Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, NY every New Years Eve.

Something like 25 whistles are blown.

Cross section of trains, ships, industrial and even traction engines.

I am sure the school has a web site.

ted_miles@nps.gov

Is there a sound file out on the net of the Titanic whistle? That would be worth hearing.

frisco1522@sbcglobal.net

Any recordings available of this whistle blow... either at City Hall or the Mall???

It appears you did a VERY good job of preparing for it!

Were the "Shop tests" "documented" in some way and is it or could it be made available for review?

Semper Vaporo,
Charles T. McCullough
CMBY RY

.

Apologies in order. I never heard about a Dallas blow. I was referring to that huge publicity stunt with the replica whistles, broadcast online and analyzed after the fact in the pages of Horn & Whistle.

Incidentally, the massive whistle triad off a sister ship to the Titanic, the Mauretania, is in a whistle "museum" in Cornwall, England. Unbelievably, THAT set is occasionally blown, and is reportedly audible (if not physically able to be felt!) at up to five miles away!

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Hello All:

Unfortunately, I have no recordings of the effort.

The whole project was done in under 10 days from start to finish and this included the two days of demonstrations.

We were too busy to document anything other than what the local jurisdictions required which were aimed more at public safety; i.e., fire, police, state boiler board etc.

It was very impressive.

I have some photos somewhere, I'll try and find them ... but don't hold your breath.

Cheers;

PKurilecz

PS: Alexander, I wouldn't worry about the apology, it sounds as if this sounding of the replica chime set did not receive the same amount of publicity.

The rep from SFX was worried about the whole thing until it was done. To show him my confidence, I handed him my car keys!


UK Heritage Railways
pkurilecz@yahoo.com

> I think the oldest Whistle blow around is
> put on by Conrad Milsner at the Pratt
> Institute in Brooklyn, NY every New Years
> Eve.

> Something like 25 whistles are blown.

> Cross section of trains, ships, industrial
> and even traction engines.

> I am sure the school has a web site.

We used to hold a whistle blow ever year at the Marysville Power Plant of Detroit Edison, and we do still sell recordings of the first one, if interested. Roughly 6 or 7 could fit on a manifold at a time. Unfortunately, like everything else, the lawyer's got involved over liability and it was canceled in the early 1990's, although DTE basically uses the old girl (built in 1922) as standby power now-a-days.

However, when the rest of the Midwest was black, we here in marysville had 8 blocks on Gratiot Avenue lit up like a Christmas tree, since it never made it to the grid. Needless to say, the three gas stations with power made a killing, and so did the Big Boy and the Carter's Grocery Store!

TJ Gaffney


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

If I remember correctly, the Bergen County (NJ) Technical School stationary-engineer training program blew a collection of whistles on New Year's Eve, plumbed up to its collection of stationary boilers.

Aarne Frobom
The Steam Railroading Institute
Owosso, Michigan

Good info- thanks. I am a bit familiar with a few of the the H & W crowd and in fact was thinking of proposing to our BOD that we might do this...but didnt want to open up a whole logistical nitemare. I'm thinking of Sched 80 piping to permit 4-6 whistles to be rigged up using 2" unions and that participants would be responsible for anything from the union half upwards. Naturally, anything that requires greater than 2" inlet is S.O.L. Power is an 0-4-0 Vulcan which if I recall from memory was 280 some-odd horsepower.

Thinking out loud, it seems that an event specifically targeted at loco whistles would be most appropriate. Liberty Ship whistles need not apply...

Bill

staybolt@bellsouth.net

If you'd like to hear steamboat whistles, some of them from boats long gone, check out the web site below.

-Jim Herron

hrvideo@mindspring.com

OOPS! Here's the site:

www.steamboats.org/eblow.htm

> -Jim Herron


Steamboat whistles
hrvideo@mindspring.com