Somewhat off-topic, but ran across this on the DOT site and thought some might be interested.

http://www.dot.gov/affairs/marad2903.htm
ryarger@rypn.org

Again, off topic, but saw a fragment of a Discovery Channel program yesterday just before marking time, noting a German ocean liner that sank during WWII with something like 9000 people aboard. The ship's name ended in "goff". Couldn't find anything on it on Discovery website, nor on Yahoo/Google. Did anyone else see this, or know the name of the ship? Is Discovery Channel different in Canada like the History Channel is?



ryarger@rypn.org

Bob,

I think it was something like the "William Gustoff". It was loaded German troops and Russian citizens sympathetic to the Germans who were fleeing from the advancing Russians. It was attacked while in the middle of the Sea of Norway on it's way to Germany in 1944 or 1945. They didn't stand a chance in the frigid waters; making it one of the worst (if not the worst) maritime disaster of all time.

It exceeded the civilian losses aboard both the Titanic and the Lusitania; yet little mention is made of it in the history texts.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Again, off topic, but saw a fragment of a
> Discovery Channel program yesterday just
> before marking time, noting a German ocean
> liner that sank during WWII with something
> like 9000 people aboard. The ship's name
> ended in "goff". Couldn't find
> anything on it on Discovery website, nor on
> Yahoo/Google. Did anyone else see this, or
> know the name of the ship? Is Discovery
> Channel different in Canada like the History
> Channel is?


Surviving World Steamships
james@survivingworldsteam.com

Wilhelm Gustloff
james@survivingworldsteam.com

The "Wilhelm Gustloff" was a motor vessel built as the "People's Friend Ship" of a workers branch of the Nazi party. It was named after some low level Nazi party dupe who was made into a hero for political purposes. Originally, it was to be a vacation cruise ship, and it's style was more than a little reminiscent of the "Bremen" and "Europa". It was pressed into service to return Nazi SS men and their families to Germany as the Russian Red Army started to roll back over eastern Poland. The story is that the ship was not only full of these fanatical SS officers and their wives, girlfriends, and children, but also full of stolen art, and some of it extremely historic and valuable. A Russian submarine caught the ship and sent it to the bottom during a frigid and somewhat stormy night. There was no escape and reportedly, people commited suicide with pistol rather than freeze to death on the Baltic. Today the bow and stern are in very good condition in deep water, but the hull has collapsed in between.

glueck@maine.edu

Thanks for all the info. Now that I know the proper name, I've found tons of stuff about the ship on the internet.

ryarger@rypn.org

bob,

now that far away from Preservation. Some of the money from that program is slated for preservation grants.

When environmental problems stopped the work, the money did not happen.

Last I knew the firsst two ships to get help were the Liberty Ships John Brown in Baltimore and the
Jerimah O'Brian here in San Francisco.

Sinking them for artificial fish reefs does not put much in the kitty though.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

Add to the survivors list the SS American Victory which is now a WWII and Mariner's museum in Tampa, FL. The restored ship made it's first public cruise in September and is open daily for tours. It's powered by a steam turbine. Built in 1945, it served in WWII, the Korean War and Viet Nam.

For more follow the link.

Jim Herron


SS American Victory
hrvideo@mindspring.com

Jim,

We have one here in Richmond, california too. The Red Oak Victory is owned by the Richmond Historical society and is moving toward operation.

The San Pablo Bay Reserve fleet housed a number of ships that have or should be preserved. The Liberty Ship Jerimah O'Brian was in there for years.

And speaking of Victories, The museum building at San Francisco Maritime Park dispalys and operated the complete radio room of the Ryder Victory.

The radio club has the 4U radio going on the third Sunday of the month.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

A little while back there was a speaker at my local library who talked about what it was like living in Germany during World War II. She had been a Hitler youth, and was there when everything fell apart. Disguised as a boy, she fled North after being seperated from her family and ended up sailing on the Wilhelm Gustloff. Not exactly sure how she survived, but I beleive she said a crewman threw her into a lifeboat, one of the few that were launched. The Gustloff actually wasn't the only ship lost that night as well, two more German ships carrying refugees, both "Strength Through Joy" liners I believe, were sunk by Russian torpedoes as well. They figure that over 16,000 people died that night. Terrible disaster that has had very little recognition.

Thanks, Taylor


lmcx@eoni.com

16,000 dead in one series of attacks is a great deal of lost human life. Bear in mind however, that this was war, and war equals deaths. You'd think we'd learn. I also want to raise the perspective that these victims were Nazi SS officers. I'm sorry to say, that my sympathy has to be limited. I'd rather throw it to the lives they were responsible for exterminating, or the sailors of the "Arizona", or the dead on the Normandy Beaches.


glueck@maine.edu