Howdy. I’m interested in purchasing a 30 ton Vulcan 0-4-0T and I’m looking to get an idea of what an engine like this is worth before I settle on a deal. I’ll attach some pictures and give a brief description of it, but the owner does not have it up for sale publicly so I don’t want to disclose too much information. I’m not looking for a proper appraisal that I would hold anyone to, just let me know an honest evaluation of what you see here, even though you won’t be able to account for everything you don’t see. I appreciate yall letting me pick your brain. I am located in Alberta CANADA, and this engine is in Canada as well, but came from the states with no CRN or A number, so it will probably be a bit of a fight to get it certified if I acquire it.
-Built 1925
-36” drivers
-Cab & saddle tank are there (I think the bottom of the saddle tank is rusted through)
-has all fixings stored out of weather (air compressor, whistle, bell, gauges, etc)
-supposedly has everything down to the lock washers
-was running prior to disassembly and transport
-sitting for 40 years
-for the purposes of the above question, assume the boiler is in good shape but needs tubes. Planning to do a NDT soon.
-set up for oil burning

I realize now that I could only attach one picture when posting this, I’ll try and post some more later or make an online folder.

Here’s a link to a google drive folder with pictures and short videos of it.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... mo53A7NQXu

First, let me welcome you to RyPN !!!

About ten years ago, I bought a similar size Porter 0-4-2T in similar condition for just under $5K. She was missing plates, bell, headlights, and larger appliances. The rebuild is a "work in progress", and good luck to you.

The construction of the boiler is in your favor. The longitudinal seam is a good design, the dome seam is excellent and there appears to be a liner to reinforce the dome opening. The video went over the fire box too rapidly to get much information but the staybolt heads don't appear to show much flame erosion and the heads appear to be intact. That all said until you open the boiler up and have a look it is a crap shoot. I have appraised several locomotives of this size and shape. If the parts were in excellent condition and all accounted for you would sill have a lot of work to get it operational. The last locomotive of this size I appraised was in operational condition but not ticketed (that is having a government or insurance company issued boiler certificate) and was an older restoration. My appraisal was accepted in to court. I appraised it at $65,000. The locomotive in question is in California. Yours, not being together, fully inspected, or operational might be fairly appraised at $5000 to $10,000 with the highest reasonable value not to exceed $15,000. If an inventory were taken and a comprehensive inspection made the value might be higher. There are however people with too much money and a dream who might offer more. I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you for the replies so far!

Hi Ethan,

Welcome to RYPN. While I can't offer any substantial advice on the purchase price for a steam locomotive (most of us can only dream!), I have encountered your steam hammer blacksmithing videos and have been suitably impressed. I have confidence you are the man for the job.

Best regards,
Philip Marshall

"I’m interested in purchasing a 30 ton Vulcan 0-4-0T and I’m looking to get an idea of what an engine like this is worth before I settle on a deal. "

When you ask about worth; the implication is that there's an active market for the same or at least similar items. There isn't.

The very fact that it's not publicly available for sale (and I understand the secrecy might be related to physical security) does obviate a bidding process that might give you an idea what others are wiling to pay.

Keep in in mind, the purchase price is like the entry fee at some amusement parks; you're still going to have to pay for rides; food, drinks and souvenirs.

In considering the purchase, consider the TCO (Total Cost of Ownership)

Do you have expendable funds for this purchase? (Don't take a 401k loan or the down payment on your future home)

What's the transportation cost?

Where are you going to store it? Will you be able to avoid theft or vandalism?

What is your intended purpose in acquisition? Static display or operating engine?

Do you realistically have the skills and money to restore the engine. Sure it's small, but assume for a minute the boiler needs replacement. Can you afford that?

Life can change. What is an abiding passion might be displaced by finding a spouse (or losing one if you blow the house down payment fund), an occupational relocation, aging parents, your own "check engine light" coming on.

I'm speaking from experience. Over the years; I acquired a portion of a small room's volume of small railroadiana; a couple sets of marker lights; a flagman's kit, some lanterns and books. Life changed drastically and unexpectedly six years ago; and now the thin and thinning market, increased fees and the new greater than $600/annually 1099 tax issue on online sales have all conspired to make those former treasures into white elephants. Of course I didn't say "hey hon, I bought a locomotive, so I'm going to use the garage as shop, you'll need to park outside and fight whatever snowy, icy hell next January brings".

Despite all those reservations, I hope somebody saves the old Vulcan, being as we were born a few blocks from each other, although by the time I arrived, I think Vulcan was significantly diminished and done building even industrial diesels and the former Blackman Street location had become the home of Abe Solomon's scrapping operations.

"Purchased in 1965 for $700; now asking $199,999.95--Owner Must Sacrifice"........

In all seriousness, this is like asking what a 1969 Jaguar E-Type, a 1957 Chevy, or a 1965 Cadillac is worth. IT DEPENDS.

Do you have a car that already has several Concours plaques on the dashboard, or are you talking something that has to be pried loose from the earth it's sitting upon? (Don't laugh--we had to do the latter with three Karmann Ghias we were surveying for repossession/estate settlement. They were later forklifted into a dumpster after parts salvage.)

There exist people who unrealistically believe that since they sunk $50,000 and 2000 hours into restoring a car they bought for $10,000 that they MUST get $100,000 for it, when someone else could buy another beautifully restored example of the same model elsewhere at auction for $35,000. This mentality arises all the time out there in steam locos--there are locos that could be running somewhere that sit derelict because of this mental block by the current owners, and some of us just gather on the nearby phone line waiting for the owner to drop dead.......

Friends don't let friends buy steam locomotives.......

That's a good one, got to put that on a tee shirt.

you could even do a 2 for 1 sale if the buyer promises to give the free one to his/her other half.

C W

Speaking from experience in purchasing restorable things - It can be very dangerous to let a specific item drive your lust to get into a hobby. You very quickly focus on that item and start rationalizing decisions to acquire it.

Take a step back here - what is the goal?

You would like to acquire a small tank engine that you would either cosmetically restore or operationally restore?

Write down a budget, a plan for access to resources (a workshop, a place to store or operate).

Now go shopping. Advertise your interest. Why is this locomotive "the one"? Maybe there are much better alternatives, but you don't know about them because you have not asked.

Don't focus on this one locomotive. Make a broad search, and find the best opportunity that satisfies your interest and budget.

Steven, my guess is it's fairly handy not far away and available right now. I recently replaced the Impreza that was wrecked out from under me for similar reasons, the right deal at a good price and close by. I knew what I needed, why I need it, and what purpose I need it for so the decision was easy.

Yes, the goal is of overall importance. Write it down, and constantly refer to it as you consider the acquisition. How many old line museums have had dead lines filled with unusable rusting stock that was acquired because it was offered and handy, but then left to rot because it had no practical purpose? Many tie themselves up in knots of thinking trying to justify their purpose rather than just get them gone eventually, hopefully to a good home. If you don't have a purpose for it to serve, why get it in the first place?

I don't know the original poster, but it seems he's a person with a lot of technical metal crafting skills - steam locomotives also require specialized knowledge. If he's got that, great, do a thorough job of doing the best and most invasive and documented inspection you can with the goal in mind - if not, get expert advice to help guide you through this from a realistic perspective. Either way you end up with a better idea of what's gong to be required to get it to reach your goal. Of course, it's always the things you can't see until you are in the middle of the process that will make you rethink, but be aware that they will arise and that such surprises are rarely pleasant. A 50% slush fund for unknowns wouldn't be inappropriate.

Vulcan Iron Works built compact, robust, simple effective industrial locomotives that aren't tricky or exotic and will absorb many minor deficiencies while still getting their job done. If you can demonstrate a reason to own this one, and know generally what it will cost to acquire it and make it serve the purpose, cover it's ongoing costs and bank money for it's future needs, go for it.

Now THERE'S some good advice !!! Mr Harthy, assuming this is your first time around, let me pass on a couple more bits of wisdom.

1) You never really own a steam locomotive, even if you have the Sheckles to pay for everything. The locomotive owns YOU...

2) Don't even think about it if you're married (and want to stay married).

Howdy again,
I purchased the locomotive, it’s on its way to my shop near Lougheed Alberta. For those who are curious this engine used to say “American Railway Equipment Association” on the saddle tank, and was operated on a little tourist railroad called “Civil War Junction” up until it was purchased by Bill Graham 45 ish years ago. As I have searched through this forum, I found one thread where this locomotive was brought up, and someone was wondering where it was, and here it is. Builder #3501.

ARE was a business of Arthur LaSalle. He had some financial resources and traded and repaired a range of steam locomotives in the 1960-1980 era.