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 Post subject: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2025 2:24 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 1034
Location: Bucks County, PA
Well, folks, I didn’t have this on my bingo card for this year…

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... csDBunt2OQ

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2025 4:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Posts: 308
Unfortunate, not that long ago they were mentioning that they were hoping to have thee 98 up and going again this year.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2025 6:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
In all fairness, this could be anything from a glitch in (or, horrors, lack of availability of) insurance, a repair order mandated by an FRA inspection, or a lack of qualified crew to reliably schedule operations. I have seen other operations struggle to guarantee a qualified crew on hand to maintain an advertised schedule..............

A while back, there was a discussion over a potential cause of lowered volunteer participation on this line............


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
I made some inquiries with some folks that apparently know something about what's going on. (It's smart to remember that there have been a fair number of thoroughly disgruntled ex-W&W/HRCV folks for a variety of reasons--enough that at least one entire excursion line is thought of somewhat as a "spite railroad," even using a former W&W locomotive.......)

The word from my sources is that the W&W has NO motive power at the moment up to the job of running trains, due to mismanagement of mechanical resources. 0-6-0 58 needs repairs (again), and SW1s 8408 and 114 both are reportedly so unreliable that supposedly the winter Santa trips were "topped and tailed" by both SW1s because neither could be counted on to make the trip solo. And 4-4-0 98 is still under repair/overhaul as well, formerly expected to see service again in the spring but now all bets are off.

I was told the board of directors that had sparked a mass exodus of volunteers earlier with its actions regarding a newly hired executive director has been somewhat purged--albeit replaced with a number of self-serving individuals whose actions may rise to the level of "corruption."


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:51 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2600
There is a long, ugly thread here, with lots of familiar names: https://www.facebook.com/groups/touristrailroads Reminds me of the end of ITM.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:52 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 166
Should be of no surprise to anyone who has had the slightest glimpse behind the curtain of operations. Corrupt BOD, zero maintenance on equipment, inadequate facilities, complete dismissal of dedicated volunteer staff who were the only reason equipment turned a wheel. This happens way more than people want to believe in this industry but rather than deep dive the root cause, the de-facto standard is to label those that call it out as "bad actors".

Enough said.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 10:56 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 192
Without going into internal issues at the W&W, I wonder if the Woodstown Central is taking away potential customers? The WC is easy to get to, clean facilities and the equipment is in great condition. The times I have been there the trains have been full - surely some of these passengers might have otherwise gone to the W&W.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
birdman wrote:
There are issues at every level at the W&W. If the FRA gave a close inspection, all of the equipment would be out of service. There are decades of maintenance issues, or lack of maintenance issues, I should say.


One could make the objective case that if the "FRA gave a close inspection" to every last tourist railroad out there, half or more of them would get shut down overnight.

"Let he who is without sin..........."


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 1:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2020 12:17 pm
Posts: 152
birdman wrote:
There are issues at every level at the W&W. If the FRA gave a close inspection, all of the equipment would be out of service. There are decades of maintenance issues, or lack of maintenance issues, I should say. Some issues with the steam locomotives could have been catastrophic in nature. Whenever someone new gets involved, they make the mistake of trying to fix things and they end up getting forced out.

The board is a bunch of cronies that changed the by-laws eliminating the membership's ability to elect the board, totally without input from the membership. They have an iron clad lock on the organization and dozens of hard-working volunteers have left. When people speak up the board sends letters from their lawyers threatening to sue for releasing information.

The board fired two executive directors who tried the run the organization like a proper non-profit. Since then, they decided to only have a GM with all the decisions and marching orders coming from the board. There is no transparency as exemplified by the railroad's refusal to comment on the shutdown, even to the donors and volunteers who have given so much.


That's a shame. I would think that knowing there are so many high quality operations within a days drive, They would have put more effort into being more than a fiefdom with long term stability issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2025 2:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
The question arises as to the best form of administration for such an operation.

Over the years I have been told of the organizational structures of many such entities, both in rail preservation and elsewhere. I have been told of raucous arguments over the most trivial of details. I have been told of organizations run by "benevolent dictators," either the founder or an appointed/hired one. I have been told "seniority rules" in some groups, no matter how misguided. And I have seen groups utterly paralyze themselves into an inability to function at all because every last action has to be put to a "democratic" vote amongst the membership. And I'm sure we all know places where an individual or two hold titles of leadership, but it's that one VP or director of operations you call when you REALLY have a question or want to get something done....

There is a legitimate case to be made for empowering a few (or even one) select responsible individual(s) to make executive decisions, but there is a stronger case to be made for the capability to replace said individual(s) if they perform poorly.

If the performance and "unaccountability" of this BOD is as alleged, all we can really do is sit back and let a coup arise from within, let the BOD replace itself, or start preparing for another ITM-style "rescue." Now, unlike ITM, this is more decidedly a case where the totality of the operation--the line, equipment, stations, scenery, etc.--is greater than just the sum of the assets. The W&W right-of-way would make a MUCH better-than-average "rail-trail" or rail-bike line, if we want to get fatalistic about this.......


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 9:36 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 132
Official update from the railroads social media:


Dear Friends and Supporters of the Wilmington & Western Railroad,

For over 60 years, our organization has proudly shared the rich history of the Red Clay Valley and the legacy of the railroad with you. Our volunteers and staff have dedicated their time and energy to preserving and interpreting the cultural, natural, and railroad heritage of northern Delaware for the enjoyment of the public. We're incredibly grateful for your support and enthusiasm throughout this journey.

As our historic trains continue to age, the time has come for us to take a proactive step in ensuring their long-term viability. We’ve made the decision to pause our operations for the 2025 season to conduct important maintenance and repairs to our beloved equipment. While our historic trains have stood the test of time, it’s crucial that we focus on restoring and maintaining them for the future.

While we do not have an exact date for when we’ll resume our excursions, rest assured that we are working hard to ensure the railroad is stronger than ever. Your ongoing support means the world to us as we take these important steps toward preserving the Wilmington & Western Railroad’s legacy for generations to come.

We look forward to welcoming you back aboard soon and appreciate your understanding and patience during this time of necessary restoration.

Thank you for being a part of our journey.

With gratitude,
The Wilmington & Western Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 1:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6463
Location: southeastern USA
I read that this morning elsewhere and my first reaction was something along the lines of "you had all f%*! winter to do that shit!" That's how we spent 8 months of winter 9000 feet up in the Rockies if you want to talk weather, but maybe Delaware is very chilly and I've never been there in the winter, so.....

More thought was, maybe the shop isn't heated. Followed by the idea that the cost of heating the shop for off season maintenance had to be pretty damn high if it was more than the cost of having no business income from operating for a year, in which case there are many larger problems there than deferred maintenance. Of course, if the first major problem is there isn't a shop to work in, well...... immature priorities?

I'm not at all involved nor have I even been to that place so I may be way off here.......

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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 5:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11824
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Dave,

This is their shop in a 2013 photo:

Image

In many ways it's a lot better than some shops I have seen at many, MANY excursion lines and museums. I recall there's a drop pit jury-rigged in there somewhere, allowing them to drop axles.

But back in the day when I was around, the heat source was a barrel of burning scrap wood and rags, and to the left is a break room with a wood/coal stove. Maybe they use torpedo kerosene heaters now, I dunno.

Delaware is in the area where they still get snow and frigid temps in the winter. The general Philly/Baltimore region is an area where winter days are often hit by temps just warm enough to melt snow in the daytime and freeze up solid again at night. Furthermore, access to the shop is via a dirt driveway like many railroad access roads, about a thousand feet to traverse from Old Capitol Trail. There's now another way to get in, via the back and the office building behind the property, but you still have to hike a bit from that parking lot to get to the shop itself. (Current Google Street Views are from 2019 and 2017, so take this with a grain of salt.)

I am in no way making any apologies or excuses for the railroad. But it would take either a pretty determined and loyal group of volunteers to work there in the dead of winter, or a paid diesel/boiler outfit on hire, to be working in there in the dead of January and February--and I am to understand they've had some pretty nasty snowstorms and cold temps of late. I mean, even Amtrak's Wilmington Shops nearby isn't the greatest place to work in the winter.


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2025 11:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2022 11:00 pm
Posts: 166
Trains Magazine article that doesn't go to in depth regarding the maintenance issues with the equipment

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... road-says/


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 Post subject: Re: Wilmington and Western Operations Paused - Indefinitely?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2025 10:16 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 178
"The required FRA inspection on both the steam and diesel locomotives were minimal and mostly pencil whipped."

If this is true and known to be happening, was the FRA informed? If not, why?

MDR


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