From what I understand, just funding. It would nice to get more clarity though. I've heard that two separate contractors have evaluated the project to determine what still needs to be done and the best path to complete the restoration, but have heard nothing beyond that. Per the Iron Horse Society, they need further funding to resume work.

John

I just saw on the Ahead of the Torch Facebook page where the #664B moved under it's owner power for the first time in 51 years.

Couldn't have put it better myself John

Steamtown has had a bad reputation for the botched projects and lack of fulfillment of being a center of steam, along with the neglected pieces outside.

Fortunately, it does look like there's some welcome progress though with a few things, particularly with Meadow River #1, according to the NPS hasn't had a cab since the Early 80's, before it ever went to Scranton.

Things could be changing for the better coming from an outsider's perspective. But we'll see.

The #3713 restoration having been at a halt for 5 years with no news since IHS announced they were taking over is especially concerning, since the #26 comes due for it's 1472 in just a few years (it was placed back in service in '15), which means they could very likely be without an operational steam locomotive again.

Yeah, it does seem likely that they will be steamless again in a few years, unless something very unexpected happens.

John

My recollection is that 26 was first fired up on 12-2-14 but that the first tube was put in some time in October of 2011. Adding the one-year grace period for completion, the 15-year clock started October 2012, and so the 15-year clock will toll in October 2027. So they have about 28 months of operation left if they do not get to 1472 service days first. Been a long time since I've thought about STEA so I'd appreciate correction by anyone having more accurate data.

The last overhaul of Baldwin #26 was EXTENSIVE. If no other emergencies pop up it should be possible to do the 1472 and only miss perhaps one season, and we'll have a rebuild SW1 to fill in.

Regarding 3713, what most fail to realize is that the Locomotive Shop has 8 employees. After you do the regular maintenance on 26, 514, 4 coaches, and work to get three more coaches in service, plus being responsible for other mobile equipment like fork trucks and trackmobiles, and working on cosmetic restorations like the ERIX tank, Bullard 2, and Meadow River #1, and being on call to deal with any minor issues that pop up with the operating equipment, I'm not sure where people think the man-hours to work on 3713 are supposed to come from, but they've still been managing to make some progress getting the tender trucks overhauled.

The shop did get some estimates to have 3713 completed by contractors. The difference between the estimated cost and the budget on hand is... substantial. I know railfans are hyperfocused on mainline steam, but the short rides are the bread and butter of our visitor experience and have to be prioritized. 3713 will run, but it's not going to be exceptionally soon. The existing operations need to be on much firmer footing before we can shift focus to the mainline, and that's where the focus is now.

Thanks for shedding some light on the situation. I do wonder why things are so much harder than they were when I was younger. I lived in Northeast PA back when 2317 and 3254 were running at the same time, but going even further back I remember my grandparents in New Jersey taking me to Allaire State Park where three unique steamers were operational (Surry, Sussex & Southampton 26, Ely Thomas Lumber Shay #6, and Irish Lady Edith #3). Now it's been over 20 years since they had even one steam locomotive operational, and getting just one back seems like a pipe dream. Is it the general slide of the middle class as wealth is more concentrated at the top? Increased regulation? Lack of expertise and manpower among the younger generation? Some combination of the above?

Probably a combination of all the factors you just mentioned. Also with fewer places capable of fully restoring a steam locomotive, and with fewer places to operate.

But, another thing to mention that hasn't declined is the enthusiasm. Plenty of people have appreciation for steam and many, many endangered or decaying locomotives have been fixed up to some degree, or even restored. Many places that have a steam locomotive have readily available campaigns to at minimum help upkeep basic maintenance, or in more drastic circumstances, full restoration.

The enthusiasm is a good thing for all of us: eventually it leads to more pieces being in good condition, but the one con to it in the internet age is just how many there are with limited budgets to go around. It leads to people having to pick and choose what they'd give their money too. And with costs continually rising, it exacerbates the issue.

With Steamtown, the recent reputation also isn't very strong. Even if they are making strides to change that, it will take time to really get people enthused in the same way again. So, if i was rhetorically presented a business case to put my donations to them, what makes Steamtown something I should put money towards? "Why should I have faith in them over something else?"

Back to Steamtown's restoration progress, the best thing for Steamtown to do is to continue to work quietly, but also not be bashful about what new things you've been doing once things are done. When Meadow River #1 is fully cosmetically repaired, go all out in advertising the job well done: social media, trains magazine, railfan and railroad, the whole shebang. Go all out in applauding the restoration crews, saying vaguely what you wish to accomplish next, and so on. Positively advertise your own product.

Yes, the 26 restoration was extensive. But even when it was cut loose in April 2016, it wasn't quite as complete as one would expect-the installation of the SRR injectors didn't occur until after the first operating season-and were they a wonderful thing-knowing you'd reliably obtain nice click on the prime and then hear the rush of water going in. Dec 1999 to Apr of 2016 was simply too long a time to complete the restoration of a simple saturated 0-6-0. This is not a visceral reaction-it's based on a comparison to other restorations, often done with fewer resources.

After spending close to a quarter century and something like 4000 plus volunteer hours (that's a number than means two years of full time employment) up there, serving on two affiliated groups and midwifing one's birth, I concluded that in my expected lifetime, I would never see anything like 2002, let alone the grand visions of the mid and late eighties for several reasons, the one being the inadequate shop staffing noted in the above post.

By the way, when your staff shrinks-you increasingly run into "switching costs", which is the need to reacquaint and reorient oneself when ceasing work on one project to attend to another-especially those "emergencies"-and they will come up attempting to run century old equipment with an ever-diminishing inventory of parts and external vendors.

If there was 1/100,000 the interest in this as there is in foreign wars or the idiocy of spending billions on a dedicated high speed rail line in one most seismically active places in the world; Steamtown could be "fixed" and be in a position to delivery a visitor experience in-line with reasonable expectations for decades to come. Alas, there is not.


The time to add mechanical staff was 2015, when people like Bruce Mowbray, Kevin Bose, Mike Oprisko and Mike Therriault still had years to train and mentor younger folks. Now, the staff will likely be hampered by the need to pour through books and blueprints instead of just being able to ask an old head. On the operational side, I can think of two individuals under 60, who ran mainline steam-but that was 13 years ago. The other is over 80.


And here's the kicker. Initially, the visitor/supporter base was an ever-diminishing group of people with memories of steam or at least passenger train operations. They have largely passed on, and so the backbone will be families with small children. However, the birthrate, already low-plummeted even more with COVID.

As much as we might find a rebuilt SW1 to be fascinating, visitors come to STEAMtown to see STEAM. If the SW1 was an addendum item to provide an insight into why and how steam was supplanted, that would be great. However, to make it the principal moving asset is a return to the 2013-2015 era when we had to field the questions that arose from "Hi, welcome to Steamtown, this is a diesel locomotive, and here's another" and you would just see faces drop with disappointment.

And to the matter of the pointed inquiry as to my continued post active involvement interest, the best thing I can say is I spent more than a third of my life there-so it's like Hotel California. You can check out any time you like, but you can never leave.




 

For starters. Steamtown NHS started by inheriting two operable road engines and about 14 operable coaches. Steamtowns annual budget has never increased since 1986. It is indisputable that at various times since then, the operation has been poorly managed, with spells of "run it 'til it breaks then park it" mentality being the rule of the day.

All of those people are retired and/or dead.

ALL OF THEM.

I understand how people feel about what has happened here. The people whom you are mad at are all done and gone. Rail Ops and the Loco Shop are staffed now entirely by a new generation of people who are serious and realistic about Steamtown living up to its potential. That may not look like what was here in 1995, but it will be good. If you're among the ranks of "Steamtown Haters" I implore you to take another look at what is happening here. Steamtown is going to turn around right now, or never. Help us make it right now.

First, one must be careful making assertions like "Steamtowns annual budget has never increased since 1986." As stated, that is incorrect. It has increased, in nominal dollars just about every year. It would be more accurate to state that the annual budget increases were not sufficient to keep pace with inflation or operating and physical plant contingencies. This should be obvious that the staff count which was once around 90, has been reduced to the 40's. I have "Green books" from about 2002.

As to this "new generation", that means nothing. In fact, it's a bit of a detriment, since there's nobody who can replace Bernie O'Brien (51 years, including time spent on D&H Challengers) and soon to have passed 12 years ago. Man, do I miss his wit and wisdom-knowing as I once told him that he was "in uniform when i was in liquid form".

https://www.legacy.com/us/obituaries/ci ... d=19399238

Tom Wyatt (almost four decades starting with the PRR and ending with Amtrak) or a Seth Corwin or Bill Withuhn (with innumerable political connections).

As you've stated before, there are only 8 shop employees-and that isn't sufficient to maintain continuity. You've already speculated that the 26 will be oos and replaced with an SW1. No Steam = Disappointed Visitors.

As an aside, there's a bit of condescension about saying this "new generation" is "serious and realistic" with the implicit assertion that somehow this wasn't true or these qualities were insufficient among the prior staff and volunteers.

Many of the old guard gave thousands of hours of volunteer time or were employed for decades. Every year, we'd return like Swallows to Capistrano, only to be disappointed with less activity.

It is a common theme among some folks to reduce disagreement and skepticism to "hate". As it so happens, I discussed this post with a mutual acquaintance just last night. We agreed that we'd like to see "success" and for us, that inter alia means multiple running steam locomotives, continuity of steam operations, a self-sustaining training operation (which cannot happen without a sufficient number of operations) and growing visitorship.

Nonetheless, having both spent several years trying to give Steamtown the gift of operating steam on a golden platter, not to be rejected, but ignored. (The opposite of love isn't hate, it's indifference) Despite that, there were overtures to attempt a "reconsideration" of the idea.

I'm willing to be happily surprised, and as wrong as I was when UP rendered the statement "a Big Boy will never run again" dead wrong, but I remain skeptical-that accumulated "deferred maintenance" is ever going to be overcome-even with rumors of another de-accessioning. The same old NPS will still impose red tape and excessive risk aversion. That they'll issue revised "foundation statements" and "comprehensive interpretive plans" that are, to quote SCOTUS AJ Elena Kagan "a vapid and hollow charade".

Papa Joe isn't coming back to watch what a former Congressman once described to me as "McDade's baby". Federal fiscal disorder is going to increase as the interest on increasing debt interest chews up more and of the annual expenditures-not to mention the endless wars.

The Romans used to have an interesting inscription on tombstones- "What you are, I was, What I am, you will be".

As for "help", I gave it all I had. As for others, they should donate their time and treasure on the orchard that they think will bear the most fruit.

I'm just replying to see if I can get you to reiterate your tired, myopic talking points yet a third time.

It's sad to see people who failed at something to root for others to fail too. This industry has no place for your attitude.

Did you happen to read my response before you huffed and snorted and frothed at the mouth?

As it so happens, I discussed this post with a mutual acquaintance just last night. We agreed that we'd like to see "success" and for us, that inter alia means multiple running steam locomotives, continuity of steam operations, a self-sustaining training operation (which cannot happen without a sufficient number of operations) and growing visitorship.

"I'm willing to be happily surprised, and as wrong as I was when UP rendered the statement "a Big Boy will never run again" dead wrong,"

And you call yourself "serious".

Now, while we're discussing incompatible attitudes, perhaps you'd like to share with us the deficiencies in your attitude which resulted in the request for you to leave Project 113?