Hypothetical question:

Supposing you came up with an excuse to transfer a steam locomotive and its train (just for argument, say five cars) over a main line from one junction to another, for some excuse like a photo charter, movie hire, etc.

Just to fabricate some examples: Wilmington & Western from its junction to Baltimore...... Strasburg from Leaman Place to Lancaster and then to Columbia....... Western Maryland Scenic 734 to Hagerstown..... TVRM from Chattanooga to wherever.....

Now, assuming that the economics work to do it, how big are the obstacles that have to be hurdled with the Class Ones, financially and physically? I know certain things depend on specific trackage--Amtrak would require cab signals; is it single or double track, how much train traffic to interfere, etc.

Depending on the circumstances in question, could we fantasize about the possibilities of a terrific, albeit expensive, photo charter on lines like, just as an example, the Santa Fe Southern (using a GCRY loco)?

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> Hypothetical question:

> Supposing you came up with an excuse to
> transfer a steam locomotive and its train
> (just for argument, say five cars) over a
> main line from one junction to another, for
> some excuse like a photo charter, movie
> hire, etc.

> Just to fabricate some examples: Wilmington
> & Western from its junction to
> Baltimore...... Strasburg from Leaman Place
> to Lancaster and then to Columbia.......
> Western Maryland Scenic 734 to
> Hagerstown..... TVRM from Chattanooga to
> wherever.....

> Now, assuming that the economics work to do
> it, how big are the obstacles that have to
> be hurdled with the Class Ones, financially
> and physically? I know certain things depend
> on specific trackage--Amtrak would require
> cab signals; is it single or double track,
> how much train traffic to interfere, etc.

> Depending on the circumstances in question,
> could we fantasize about the possibilities
> of a terrific, albeit expensive, photo
> charter on lines like, just as an example,
> the Santa Fe Southern (using a GCRY loco)?

I don't think such things as cab signals, etc. will enter into any of this, as any road using such (AMTK, etc.) will require a tow behind one of their locomotives. But, that's the easy part. Simply put, I doubt if anyone could afford to do this for a photo charter. Remember, we're talking a round-trip here. Most eastern roads get $6500 to start, for a special move. That is 0-75 miles. After that, the meter runs at $56.00 per MILE. The commonly-charged $300-400 photo charter fare would have to be considerably higher just to cover the cost of getting the chooch there (wherever "there" is) AND back. The chooch provider needs to get some bucks, as does the charter promoter, and the hosting railroad. I just keep hearing the "ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching" of the cash register. Nice idea, but the current railroad environment is a bit less than conducive to this sort of thing. The only outfits that can afford to do this would be feature movie production companies. And we all know how much they care about accurate railroad scenes, and spending money to make them so.


hpincus@mindspring.com

You forgot the most prohibitive word of all, the infamous "I" word, insurance. Providing you could find an insurance carrier, the amount the RRs would ask you to carry would break any bank. It ain't easy out there any more.

frisco1522@sbcglobal.net

Several years ago, when I was handling operating contracts at Conrail, we had many unscheduled Amtrak excursions operating over our lines, and believed it could have been possible to address the liability issue by having such steam excursions - as Amtrak would consider - operated under our operating agreement with them (which at the time we believed would address the liability aspects). Operating issues, of course, would also have had to be addressed, case-by-case.

Unfortunately, for a combination of reasons, Amtrak was unwilling to pursue this, for reasons best explained by them...

r-paul@msn.com

> I don't think such things as cab signals,
> etc. will enter into any of this, as any
> road using such (AMTK, etc.) will require a
> tow behind one of their locomotives. But,
> that's the easy part. Simply put, I doubt if
> anyone could afford to do this for a photo
> charter. Remember, we're talking a
> round-trip here. Most eastern roads get
> $6500 to start, for a special move. That is
> 0-75 miles. After that, the meter runs at
> $56.00 per MILE. The commonly-charged
> $300-400 photo charter fare would have to be
> considerably higher just to cover the cost
> of getting the chooch there (wherever
> "there" is) AND back. The chooch
> provider needs to get some bucks, as does
> the charter promoter, and the hosting
> railroad. I just keep hearing the
> "ka-ching, ka-ching, ka-ching" of
> the cash register. Nice idea, but the
> current railroad environment is a bit less
> than conducive to this sort of thing. The
> only outfits that can afford to do this
> would be feature movie production companies.
> And we all know how much they care about
> accurate railroad scenes, and spending money
> to make them so.

Didn't a group run a steam excursion from San Diego to LA last summer? I remember reading about here on the Briefs.

Ed

ff1044@aol.com

Howard is right - if the mechanical department signs off on the equipment and you don't mind a diesel tow, it's really just a question of writing the check.

In my experience with special moves, it is best to start at the bottom and work up; if the division superintendent doesn't have a problem with it, HQ will probably go along. Personal contacts and relationships can play an important role.

TVRM moved the 4501 off line a few years ago for a movie shoot; somebody there who is more familiar with the details than I am can probably fill you in.

Although it wasn't a steam engine or complete train, about six or seven years ago I had to move a friction bearing, wood body passenger car over Conrail. I got the local mechanical department guy to OK it first, then with his approval in hand, I got a rate. I then went back and negotiated a devious routing with a couple of trainmasters so we could avoid the mainline and a classification yard with a history of smashing up passenger equipment. Thanks to their cooperation, the car moved with no trouble at all.

Alan Maples



AMaples@aol.com

> Didn't a group run a steam excursion from
> San Diego to LA last summer? I remember
> reading about here on the Briefs.

The trip in California blew up over a perceived insurance issue. It was not at all a problem with the sponser but rather with what R. Paul Carey refered to him his prior post.

R. Paul is correct, "Where there is a will there is a way". But someone has to have the will!

I am in the process of preparing a RYPN editorial on this very issue.

Keep watching!



v-scarpitti@att.net

> > I am in the process of preparing a RYPN
> editorial on this very issue.

> Keep watching!

Mr. Levin, judging from the text of the speech you gave at PSU a few years back and were kind enough to forward to me this past summer-will no doubt be accurate and provacative.

I encourage other readers to watch look and listen for that train of thought.



superheater@rrmail.com

No Message

A recent issue of the BNSF tarrif for similar moves shows the following. These prices are for "locomotives". There is no mention made of steam locomotives per se, but these prices could at least be used to get some ball park figures.

BNSF 90020, Item 1002:

2) BNSF will not move locomotives on their own wheels if they are not equiped with either alignment control couplers or stop blocks.

3) BNSF will not move locomotives, equipped with friction bearings, on their own wheels.

4) Any locomotive that must move at speeds less than 45 mph, will be required to move in special train service and an additional charge of $58.00 per rail mile (minimum charge of $7,500.00) will be assessed for the special train service.

Sample rates to move a locomotive, if it meets all their requirments, are as follows:

51 to 100 miles: $1,100.00
401 to 500 miles: $2,125.00
901 to 1,000 miles: $3,400.00
1501 to 2,000 miles: $4,600.00

As one can see, it ain't cheap. But these are the tarrif rates, and sometimes steam loco moves are for special, one-time circumstances and can probably be negotiated depending on the reason for the move.

The same tarrif quotes BNSF passenger car movement rates at $3.60 per mile, (minimum charge $901.00) which as far as I know, is the highest in the industry. So, in comparison, the rates for moving a loco don't look too bad.