I think these may have been mentioned before, but providing the link again for those interested: What's involved in preserving iron artifacts that have long been submerged in salt water, then raised?

http://www.andreadoria.orgwww.njscuba.net/sites/list_nj_north_2.html#locomotives
ryarger@rypn.org

> I think these may have been mentioned
> before, but providing the link again for
> those interested: What's involved in
> preserving iron artifacts that have long
> been submerged in salt water, then raised?

A lot of variables are involved ... two cases come to mind; the first being the Titanic ...way down there in an oxygen-rich area ...being rapidly (200 years ??) consumed and collapsing in a big heap of iron oxide. The second is the Monitor ...very thick turret raised ...balance too fragile to raise. I would be willing to bet that the locos in the link are held in shape by the marine life.
As everyone knows that has knocked the deep dark iron oxide off their equipment the oxide has expanded approx. 16 times the thickness of metal oxidised making it look like a lot more is there then really is. This sponge holds water and insures further corrosion. By the time you remove the material from salt water, neutralize the corrosives, dry everything out you don't have a lot of stable fabric left. If you had to pick a place to store a locomotive underwater, you would choose very cold fresh water with no oxygen present, no currents and preferably a nice layer of mud to seal everything. This is why they have been able to salvage locomotives and machinery from deep quarries.


lamontdc@adelphia.net

This is why they have been able
> to salvage locomotives and machinery from
> deep quarries.

Or why there is so much interest in trying to find sunken locomotives in the Great Lakes as of late...

TJ


Northeastern Maritime Historical Foundation

tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

The iron gets loaded up with salt. For more information, you might want to take a look at the
Mariners Museum web site and the USS Monitor section.

Conservation of this stuff takes years and mega bucks to do it right.

Better to leave the engines where they are.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

The USS Monitor Website has information on the preservation techniques being employed.
It's worth signing up for their occasional newsletters. They e-mail them as needed. You can learn even more by getting these interesting pieces right in your mailbox.
It's a long, arduous process fraught with tedium. Yet, when done, artifacts once lost will once again be seen by man. If you've got the money and patience, it will be rewarded.

hankmorris@earthlink.net

> The USS Monitor Website has information on
> the preservation techniques being employed.
> It's worth signing up for their occasional
> newsletters. They e-mail them as needed. You
> can learn even more by getting these
> interesting pieces right in your mailbox.
> It's a long, arduous process fraught with
> tedium. Yet, when done, artifacts once lost
> will once again be seen by man. If you've
> got the money and patience, it will be
> rewarded.
I posted the website--it didn't appear. It's--
http://www.monitorcenter.org/


hankmorris@earthlink.net

The Confederate submarine CSS Hunley is a good example of what's required. It was raised several years ago and has been kept submerged in refrigerated, deoxygenated salt water since. The water has been drained from the storage tank periodically to allow excavation of mud from the subs interior and the recovery of the submariners' remains and artifacts. The process for making the submarine safe for display outside of the tank will involve chemical treatment and reverse electrolysis which will take several years. A complicating factor is the fact that several different materials are involved (wrought iron, cast iron, steel, etc.).

The Hunley webpage at the link below has some really good information. Click on the "conservation" tab for relevant information.

> I think these may have been mentioned
> before, but providing the link again for
> those interested: What's involved in
> preserving iron artifacts that have long
> been submerged in salt water, then raised?


The Hunley
whodom2001@yahoo.com

> As everyone knows that has knocked the deep
> dark iron oxide off their equipment the
> oxide has expanded approx. 16 times the
> thickness of metal oxidised making it look
> like a lot more is there then really is.
> This sponge holds water and insures further
> corrosion.

I guess when I hear sunken locomotive I evision a locomotive, subjected to abuse ( a crash or a drop from a height- remember these usually dont wind up sunk without some kind of accident) and then left as part of the reef for 50 years. If one was able to carve enough of the rust and marine growth away so that it resembled a locomotive again, after an extensive and expensive overhaul you'd have yet another engine in search of insurance and a place to run.

As a tall hill to climb, not impossible, but given the fact that so many people fail at taking normal "restorable" locomotives and bringing them back to life- ya gotta wonder...what could be the rationale for tackling a low percentage project.

Of course, you could have the one engine that went down in the cold deep dark freshwater that perfectly coccooned itself in the muck and looks exactly like the day it sunk- it probably needed a full overhaul then, too.

Bill



staybolt-nospam-@bellsouth.net

> Or why there is so much interest in trying
> to find sunken locomotives in the Great
> Lakes

It's also a race against the Zebra Mussels, which
are a fresh water marine growth pest.

Does this mean any new news about the "Essex",
the 2nd steam loco for the Morris & Essex RR,
later the Lackawanna? It went down with the
steamer "Clarion" in Lake Erie in 1850!

TyburnRR@cs.com