> Just in case someone asks you what you want
> for Christmas ... see below

This is all too much fun. I've got to get back to work ...


ssweaver@paonline.com

Lrt me add to that from the Merchant Marine side. Those F M Diesel engines powered whole fleets of fishing boats and small passenger carriers. They just kept on going.

Of course endless supply of cold water to cull them with.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

> The big thing that killed off most of GM's
> competitors was the General Motors
> Acceptance Corporation. General Electric
> also had the General Electric Credit
> Corporation. The buy now pay later attitude
> the railroads' management had and still does
> make GM and GE the two big front runners in
> the industry.

That is an important factor.

Kirkland in his books about the diesel builders makes the point that the experience and knowledge of the mechanics is import in the survival of diesel locomotives. Put a F-M into a location that is used to EMDs and it will not get the kind of service it needs and will get put aside. The Southern Pacific realized this and grouped all of its F-M locomotives in the SF Bay area at one maintenance point.

Brian Norden

> There's more to the story than technical
> issues, although as rail historians we tend
> to focus on those first.

> FM was the target of a hostile takeover bid
> (you can search the New York Times index to
> find details). The company had a 50-unit
> order for Train Masters to, IIRC, Illinois
> Central almost lined up, but news of the
> corporate shenanigans scuttled the deal,
> and, some would say, the company.

I never heard about the IC order and its demise.

Was the take over hostile? I'll check into that.

Penn-Texas took them over in the mid 50's. I recall looking up that firm years ago in various issues of Moody's. It started out as Pennsylvania Coal and Coke and after WWII invested in Texas oil and got out of coal. It bought one of the firms named Pratt-Whitney (the tools business I beleive) and then F-M. And changed its name again.

Brian Norden

Pretty much the same thing for Alco ...didja ever notice that "all Alco" railroads manage to run them with few problems.

lamontdc@adelphia.net

> Bob
> F-M made inline engines too; did your DER
> have them or OP's?
Now there you got me! I was Sonar which was located on the 0-2 level and I very seldom had a chance to enter the deep,dark domain of the engine room. That class of DE was refurbrished in 1955 with a complete make-over, all new power plants, air conditioning,lighting, paint and berthing spaces for the crew. The one thing that still sticks in my mind in reguards to the F/M's was that with a "Incompetent" skipper (Which we had one) They could run out of starting air when he used a large number of comands while highlining or entering port. The engines had to be stopped and then restarted in the opposit direction. This resulted in two collistions which did a fair amount of damage! As far as the F/M's, I can't remember any problems other then a bad manifold on one which was replace while in port. The worst part of this whole thing was the constant smell of diesel fuel which we ate,drank and inhaled 24/7.
Have a great holiday!
Bob

rrnut@prodigy.net

Thanks. Many of those converted DER's were reassigned to offshore patrol in Vietnam (Market Time)

I believe the diesel DE's were preferred to steam DE's for the DER program because they were more fuel efficient and needed less crew (no fire room)

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> Thanks. Many of those converted DER's were
> reassigned to offshore patrol in Vietnam
> (Market Time)

> I believe the diesel DE's were preferred to
> steam DE's for the DER program because they
> were more fuel efficient and needed less
> crew (no fire room)
Our two squadrons whch operated out of NewPort, RI were assigned to the seaboarn addittion of the "DEW Line" These DER's were the only type of ship still doing their war time job in peacetime! We covered the outer line and converted cargo ships stayed inboard (300 miles off the coast) It was great to sit out in the North Atlantic for 30 days at a time, summer/winter doing nothing but sitting! (Except in Winter, you didn't sit!) They were used from 1955 to around 1960 when they started closing them down. I got off the USS Rhoades (DER 384) juist before the last one or two pickets. I understand that it was used down in Florida for intercepting boat people for a while!


rrnut@prodigy.net