"Railway Age", Dec. '03, p. 47:
"Notice to Bidders (from) Suffolk County:
Also included will be all safety upgrades as required to run locomotive on Long Island Railroad tracks."

Also see http://www.co.sufolk.ny.us/dpw/
under "QuickLinks" as "bids"

TyburnRR@cs.com

This is an effort that every Pennsy and LIRR fan should be getting behind. There are two LIRR G5s ten-wheelers surviving, and both are slated to eventually run again. Since the RMPa is not inclined to rebuilding their collection (and with some good reasons), it is likely the only Juniata steam we will see in operation again will be the PRR 1361 and LIRR 39 & 35. And think about this as well, all you insurance and railroad management wise ones, this restoration and operation has the blessing of the parent railroad company to run on company trackage. Opportunities to see something like this through have been rare in these past few years. RMLI and Friends of #35 both have websites and both have elegant collections of historic motive power and rolling stock. We often talk in here about what the English know about steam restoration that we don't. I think this is what the English know. The funding is there. The trackage is there. The spirit is willing. I would politely suggest that all Pennsy/LIRR fans contact these two organizations to find out how they can be better served.


glueck@maine.edu

So do tell me...why has it taken almost thirty years to get this point, with neither engine yet in steam??? Do both groups lack financial resources to make it happen, or is the classic case of infighting, no facilities, no skills, no money, no plan? I am not trying to initiate a flame war here, but realistically, where do we stand with getting either (or both) of these fine LIRR locos running again? Are both projects now on firm footing to the point where operation will likely happen in the near future, or will it continue to be a mysterous waiting game? Mechanically speaking, do both engines need extensive work, and are both groups equipped to do the job well? Perhaps representatives from both groups might share with us an update on recent happenings.

> This is an effort that every Pennsy and LIRR
> fan should be getting behind. There are two
> LIRR G5s ten-wheelers surviving, and both
> are slated to eventually run again. Since
> the RMPa is not inclined to rebuilding their
> collection (and with some good reasons), it
> is likely the only Juniata steam we will see
> in operation again will be the PRR 1361 and
> LIRR 39 & 35. And think about this as
> well, all you insurance and railroad
> management wise ones, this restoration and
> operation has the blessing of the parent
> railroad company to run on company trackage.
> Opportunities to see something like this
> through have been rare in these past few
> years. RMLI and Friends of #35 both have
> websites and both have elegant collections
> of historic motive power and rolling stock.
> We often talk in here about what the English
> know about steam restoration that we don't.
> I think this is what the English know. The
> funding is there. The trackage is there. The
> spirit is willing. I would politely suggest
> that all Pennsy/LIRR fans contact these two
> organizations to find out how they can be
> better served.

Jun - I belong to neither group, but have read the online newsletters from RMLI and they are an active and vital organization with many accomplishments.

They have started down this road and done the most difficult and critical things - raised substantial resources, built a relationship with a host railroad for an operating plan, and are now starting the bidding process for the last and easiest part of the project - doing the mechanical work.

30 years ago they hadn't done these things, therefore they couldn't have been at this point of progress then. Astrologers would say the stars and planets were not in auspicious alignments until now, others with different philosophies would have their own explainations, but it takes years of background work, suitable funding programs, and the right people in the right places whatever the universal motivations may be.

Sort of like asking why any of us have the birthdays we have.........

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Huh? Not sure I understand your logic here

> 30 years ago they hadn't done these things,
> therefore they couldn't have been at this
> point of progress then. Astrologers would
> say the stars and planets were not in
> auspicious alignments until now, others with
> different philosophies would have their own
> explainations, but it takes years of
> background work, suitable funding programs,
> and the right people in the right places
> whatever the universal motivations may be.

> Sort of like asking why any of us have the
> birthdays we have.........

> dave

I think the original question posed meant something along the lines of "they haven't made a lot of progress in 30 years, so does it make sense to make a financial contribution to this group".

I am a member a long distance away; for these reasons.

They habe the 39, an aluminum by-level, a wood caboose, a wood snowplow all last of their kind.

They may keep a lightly used line from being taken up or made into a bike path.

They have restored a freight house and are working on thr Riverhead station.

Moved a turntable in from upstate New York. Quite a good piece of work!

Gotten a TEA-21 grant from Suffolk county to do the rebuilting of the engine.

Have other equipment such as Diesels, Baggage and Passenger cars.

Assisted other rail museums with equipment and track work.

I just missed riding steam on the Long Island Railroad, I lived on a line that was already Diesel, hpoe to ride one some day!

Ted Miles



ted_miles@nps.gov

> Also see http://www.co.sufolk.ny.us/dpw/
> under "QuickLinks" as
> "bids"

First the word suffolk is misspelled in the link.
After I corrected that I still couldn't find the page on the bidding.

What am i doing wrong????

Thirty years ago, both locomotives were sitting on plinths, and one was actually in danger of being cut up for removal, so a new building could be built. Not a great deal of action happened, and there was some back-sliding, but...improvements were made. 39 had work done on it's drivers, some examination of the boilers of both locos occurred. 35 was examined in detail, repainted, rust removed, greased, oiled, sealed, etc. 35 is in parts, but altogether at her new home. She will be reassembled with new tubes andrebuilt boiler innards. 39 is ready for major overhaul, and the funds are on hand. Both organizations have collected plenty of classic LIRR rolling stock as well as the Diesel that took over 39's last train and the coaches that were part of those trains! RMLI has obtained BEDT #16 and a NG steamer as well, plus buildings, MU cars, a plow, cabooses from several eras, and coaches. The 35 group has a New Haven boxcar, caboose, Oyster Bay station, an ex-NH FA cab, and more.
Getting behind an organization doesn't have to mean financial contributions either, although that is the single most substantial way of backing a project. I think one supports such an effort by donating memorabilia, remembering the group in one's estate planning, making pictures available, attending events, buying a ticket or entrance fee, being positive about the efforts and letting the general public (companies too) know that this is a living and breathing operation. When railfans nurture these efforts, good things happen. As I see it, the one thing that will kill such a brave commitment is to turn your back on responsible people and let them shoulder the entire burden with criticism.
I love Pennsy design locomotives, that's probably evident. I was lucky enough to see and remember the last year or two of LIRR G5's and H-10's in service. I want to live long enough to see these two hot and running. All PRR/LIRR fans need to recognize the singular importance of these restoration projects. Writing a check is the most tangible way of being a part of the project, but that is not the only way to contribute.

glueck@maine.edu

> So do tell me...why has it taken almost
> thirty years to get this point, with neither
> engine yet in steam??? Do both groups lack
> financial resources to make it happen, or is
> the classic case of infighting, no
> facilities, no skills, no money, no plan? I
> am not trying to initiate a flame war here,
> but realistically, where do we stand with
> getting either (or both) of these fine LIRR
> locos running again? Are both projects now
> on firm footing to the point where operation
> will likely happen in the near future, or
> will it continue to be a mysterous waiting
> game? Mechanically speaking, do both engines
> need extensive work, and are both groups
> equipped to do the job well? Perhaps
> representatives from both groups might share
> with us an update on recent happenings.

As a trustee for the Railroad Museum of Long Island, I would like to clarify a few statements that have been made so far.

First, I would like to say that many of the points that have been made are well taken. Yes, this project was first initiated back in the mid-70's as a way to celebrate the bicentennial. The engine was moved to railroad property in 1980 with the intent of running her. This was done by a predecessor organization whose only connection it has to RMLI is the engine itself. This group, and their successor, both failed. Many of the reasons for its failure were touched on above - infighting, lack of funds, inadequate facilities, etc.

The Railroad Museum of Long Island was formed and became an outgrowth of these two former organizations. Its focus though was (and still is) much broader than just restoring 39. Engine 39 is one of the pieces of the museum's pie, but is not the whole. Those who have been entrusted with the care and development of RMLI are well aware of the problems that plagued the other groups, and since I've been involved (since 1994), there has not been the fundamental problems that seemed to tear apart the old groups (as well as others nationwide).

Once entrusted with the assets of the old "Project 39," plans were underway to continue what restoration had already taken place, and look to acquire grants to complete the project. In 1994, RMLI filed an ISTEA grant application in the amount of $800,000 to restore the engine. While this grant was approved over five years ago, issues developed with NYSDOT (who administers the funding) which has delayed the rebuilding. For the past two years, we have been working (and waiting) with Suffolk County to create a "project book." This was necessary for the county bidding process. (Suffolk County is our sponsor in the project.) The ads recently placed in Trains and Railway Age have formally started the bidding process on a grant application that has taken about 10 years to come to fruition.

I would also like to clarify a statement made above regarding running it on home rails, and the reference that LIRR has allowed it to take place. LIRR can not issue such an authorization until the locomotive can be inspected. The inspection can obiously only take place once the engine is rebuilt. While the engine will be rebuilt to LIRR standards, we can not claim it will run over LIRR trackage.

Jay


Railroad Museum of Long Island
jayrmli@optonline.net

> Huh? Not sure I understand your logic here

Perhaps I misunderstood your question....

The efforts which resulted in their current status hadn't been done 30 years ago. They have been done now. That is why they are at this point now rather than back then.

That doesn't sound any clearer, does it.....

Think of it this way: If you are at home, why aren't you at work? Answer: you haven't gone there yet. Only after you have gone to work will you be at work. Geographical / temporal metaphor make it easier?

Of course, that begs the question of time - is it a linear progression or do we just agree to think of it that way for convenience?

dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Of course, that begs the question of time -
> is it a linear progression or do we just
> agree to think of it that way for
> convenience?

> dave

Definitely NOT LINEAR, more like a Mandelbrot Set, but then again we are all good at forgetting pain ...it seems just like yesterday, etc, etc, etc

Happy Holidays Everybody!


lamontdc@adelphia.net

I would politely suggest
> that all Pennsy/LIRR fans contact these two
> organizations to find out how they can be
> better served.

Here here I cant wait to see our steamer in operation.

BEDT15@aol.com

> First the word suffolk is misspelled in the
> link.
> After I corrected that I still couldn't find
> the page on the bidding.
> What am i doing wrong????
You're right, I misspelled and left the 2nd "f"
out of the county name.
TYBR called Mr. Michael Monaghan, the project
manager, and found that the person who updates
the county Web site is on vacation, and left no
provision for inserting a Capital Project bid
notice! The solicitation is REAL!

TyburnRR@cs.com