When we spend in some cases many years restoring cars and locomotives and build authentic structures to recreate a era; it only makes good sense that our crews look the part. Most museums and tourist line do. I think it's getting harder and harder to find bib overalls and engineer coats with triple stitching can't be found. What will we do?? Anyone have any hidden sources?

http://www.hesston.org
trita3361@yahoo.com

> When we spend in some cases many years
> restoring cars and locomotives and build
> authentic structures to recreate a era; it
> only makes good sense that our crews look
> the part. Most museums and tourist line do.
> I think it's getting harder and harder to
> find bib overalls and engineer coats with
> triple stitching can't be found. What will
> we do?? Anyone have any hidden sources?
Any fair-sized Sears has the bib overalls.


Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

Our engine crews typically wear the basic blue Liberty overalls that can be purchased at any Walmart. A blue worksheet (such as a Dickies) and a bandanna also are required. The tying of the bandanna is most important. The knot goes to the back so the triangular part of the bandanna fills the opening above the next to top button of the shirt and the neckline. This is to keep cinders from going down in the shirt.

Hatwear is also critical. We do allow ball caps with a railroad logo on them but engineer's caps are preferred. And boots are a must. Polished black boots are most impressive. And don't forget a time piece!

Our conductors wear black slacks, white shirts. black ties and black suspenders. Each has the proper hat as well.

Mark Ray, SLE
TVRM

aw90h@cs.com

At our place we do require a engineer's hat not a ball cap of any style. We do let our people wear bib overalls or dungarees. A blue chambury is a must. One funny thing is we never have included boots in the code all though I do wear black boots.

Most of our guys wore Osh Koch bibs but they don't make them any more.

Are you paid at the TVRM? If not how do you enforce your dress code or any other museum?


http://www.hesston.org
trita3361@yahoo.com

> Are you paid at the TVRM? If not how do you
> enforce your dress code or any other museum?

Not in uniform, you don't run that day. Usually, we have extra qualified peoiple that day give up a project they were working on to file in whenever nece.

JimLundquist55@yahoo.com

> Most of our guys wore Osh Koch bibs but they
> don't make them any more.

In fact, Osh Kosh B'Gosh does still make overalls and other adult clothing, although there was a shortage before Christmas. I have found them to be more comfortable and more durable than Liberty's, but I still have several pair of Liberty's. The Osh Kosh adult clothing line is not available at most Osh Kosh Factory stores, but at least the ones in Gatlinburg, TN, and Dalton, GA, do carry the adult line. Also, the complete clothing line is available online at the Osh Kosh B'Gosh website.

> Are you paid at the TVRM? If not how do you
> enforce your dress code or any other museum?

The dress code is enforced by instruction and is part of the price to pay for volunteers to participate in operations. The dress code is not so rigidly enforced as to say that engine service folks couldn't wear denim jeans and chambray shirts, for instance, but the more traditional uniform is encouraged. Purely from experience, I can tell you that the "uniforms" are derived very much from a utility point of view. It is much more comfortable to wear looser fitting overalls instead of jeans which tend to fit tighter, especially when you spend the day on a hot locomotive. And as far as conductors go, the suspenders help hold up pants that are weighted down with a belt laden with a flashlight, ticket punch, keys, radio, pager, and cell phone (although the latter items are purely modern, they sure come in handy when you can't raise the operator on the radio...).

As for the boots, they are more a safety requirement than cosmetic. All train and engine service personel are required to wear a shoe with a minimum 3/8" defined heal with no less than a 45degree angle and preferrably a 90 degree angle, with a non-leather sole, and with a minimum of 6" of ankle support as measured from the bottom of the heel to the top of the shoe. Steel toes or metatarsals are optional, but preferred.

Mike Brown (TVRM)

newriver400@cs.com

> When we spend in some cases many years
> restoring cars and locomotives and build
> authentic structures to recreate a era; it
> only makes good sense that our crews look
> the part. Most museums and tourist line do.
> I think it's getting harder and harder to
> find bib overalls and engineer coats with
> triple stitching can't be found. What will
> we do?? Anyone have any hidden sources?

At the Sumpter Valley we have a somewhat laid back uniform rule. Pretty much whatever is comfortable goes. Luckily, almost everybody tries to look the part. Engineers and firemen wear overalls and striped hats, usually bandanas, and most everybody carries a pocketwatch. One of our lady engineers wears the same thing, except her hat and overalls have pink stripes. Conductors and such wear a vest, and if avalable, an appropriate hat. All of the attire we own is available from regular stores or orderable from companies that specialize in that sort of thing. In other words, appropriate clothing is still out there, you just have to know where to look.

Thanks Again, Taylor



thrush@smt-net.com

> At the Sumpter Valley we have a somewhat
> laid back uniform rule. Pretty much whatever
> is comfortable goes.

Excellent point, Tayler, as that is exactly how it was in the old days. Except for employees required to wear specific uniforms (such as passenger train crews, car attendants dining car staff, porters and certain station personell and red caps), there were no uniforms or standards for engine crews, freight train crews, yard crews, track and roundhouse workers, etc.

Look over photos of engine crews from any time in the past through to the end of steam and you will see certain themes carry through (many, if not most, did wear bibs) but shirts and headware varied all over the lot. Many old rails would not be caught dead in the cliche "engineer suit" of striped bibs and striped hat; others wore it religiously. Kromer caps were very common and are still made today in both winter and summer versions.

The point is that almost anything went in the old days, when you get beyond certains afety requirements such as boots. Railroads provided not clothing or uniform allowance to crews, so they tended to wear what they could afford, what worked, what was durable and what appealed to them.

You may not want your engineer to be wearing a ball cap or a Snoop Doggy T-shirt, but beyond such obvious things, requirements for clothing should be rather loosely defined (again, except for safety standards) and not rigidly require adherence to a "standard" that is mostly phoney folklore and is almost as silly as fake ballon stacks and wooden pilots.

IMO, of course.

Osh Kosh is still in business, but, according to their PR department, has shifted their production to Asia, which means they too are now exploiters of desperate third world workers. Real railroaders always prided themselves on buying union-made clothing, which is getting hard to find these days. To my knowledge, Carhartt produces the only union-made overalls today, and they are available in blue denim also. Last I knew, Kromer caps were still union made, and are perfectly authentic for the preservation scene. They are available my mail and can be found at some welding supply shops.

Railway Preservation News
ryarger1@nycap.rr.com

> Are you paid at the TVRM? If not how do you
> enforce your dress code or any other museum?
On the S.V.Ry, we find that a simple dress code works fine,We simply ask that the crews dress professionally,we've had few problems.

lmcx@eoni.com

Many old rails would not be caught dead
> in the cliche "engineer suit" of
> striped bibs and striped hat

Sorry, we need to embrace that cliche "engineer suit" as a perception to the public.

Guests expect to see those striped or Krommer hats and bib overalls. Just as they expect to hear "high ball" from the conductor.

It also sets the crews and the guests apart. If the guy at the "tilt-a-wril" ride at the county fair wears a uniform why can't we as professionals in our business.

I've heard the argument that crews wore what ever they were comfortable in or "engineers on modern trains wear polo shirts" ....it just won't fly from a marketing stand point.

Ted

http://www.hesston.org
trita3361@yahoo.com

Right on Brother!

Look for the Union label!

> Osh Kosh is still in business, but,
> according to their PR department, has
> shifted their production to Asia, which
> means they too are now exploiters of
> desperate third world workers. Real
> railroaders always prided themselves on
> buying union-made clothing, which is getting
> hard to find these days. To my knowledge,
> Carhartt produces the only union-made
> overalls today, and they are available in
> blue denim also. Last I knew, Kromer caps
> were still union made, and are perfectly
> authentic for the preservation scene. They
> are available my mail and can be found at
> some welding supply shops.


Old Time Trains
oldtimetrains@rrmail.com

> Sorry, we need to embrace that cliche
> "engineer suit" as a perception to
> the public.

> Guests expect to see those striped or
> Krommer hats and bib overalls. Just as they
> expect to hear "high ball" from
> the conductor.

> It also sets the crews and the guests apart.
> If the guy at the "tilt-a-wril"
> ride at the county fair wears a uniform why
> can't we as professionals in our business.

> I've heard the argument that crews wore what
> ever they were comfortable in or
> "engineers on modern trains wear polo
> shirts" ....it just won't fly from a
> marketing stand point.

> Ted

Fine, but then don't go bragging about how you are recreating or preserving history and the true experience. There is a big difference between that and perpetuating a perception that is more suited to what we wish was true instead of what was true.

Which reopens the can of worms that much of what was real about old time railroading is not only ugly from today's viewpoint but is also highly politically incorrect as well, and thus doesn't get touched with the proverbial 10-foot pole in our efforts to portray reality.

> When we spend in some cases many years
> restoring cars and locomotives and build
> authentic structures to recreate a era; it
> only makes good sense that our crews look
> the part. Most museums and tourist line do.
> I think it's getting harder and harder to
> find bib overalls and engineer coats with
> triple stitching can't be found. What will
> we do?? Anyone have any hidden sources?
If your intrested in overalls, contact Roundhouse Overall, or Shawnee Garment Factory in Shawnee, Oklahoma. They have been making them since 1902 first for the Santa Fe and Rock Island now for those who like to wear them for whatever the needs. Jim Antosh, the owner just keeps going. Blues or Hickory Stripe. He has provided programs for our local NRHS chapter. Their address is 1 American Way, Shawnee, OK 74801 or phone is 405-273-0510.

drakerr@telepath.com

Expectations are set forth through instruction, as Mark and Mike have mentioned. Proper footwear with a defined heel meeting specifications is required through regulation as pointed out by Mike.

Policy sets the minimum acceptable uniform requirements cited by Mark and Mike and most of our trainmen also wear a vest and uniform coat, except in the hottest summer months. Wearing the vest and coat provides at least five extra pockets. That can be most useful for carrying ticket punches, watches, ticket stubs, conductor's books, etc.

The museum does not provide uniforms but does maintain a list of suppliers for items that a trainman would require.

envlink@voyageronline.net