Everyone interested in railroad history nows the story of Nick Kovalchik, the scrap merchant who purchased the East Broad Top Railroad, and had the consciense to save it.

The unsung hero of the previous thread is Ed Striegel, owner of Striegel Supply Co., a Baltimore scrap dealer. That B&O #5300, B&O #4500, and RDG T-1's #2100 and 2101 are still with us, is because Mr. Striegel had a sense of history.

In the late 50's he purchased both of the above mentioned B&O engines at a scrap auction. He went back to the B&O and asked them if they shouldn't take them back for the museum, and they told him they didn't want them. He held onto them until the mid-60's, when new management was very happy to get them back for the museum.

When the Reading discontinued their Rambles, they sold both of their remaining T-1's to Mr. Striegel in 1967. He held onto both of them until Ross Rowland came along, and the rest is history.

If only Mr. Striegel could have grabbed an EM-1, or a T-3.

kevingillespie@usa.net

> Everyone interested in railroad history nows
> the story of Nick Kovalchik, the scrap
> merchant who purchased the East Broad Top
> Railroad, and had the consciense to save it.

> The unsung hero of the previous thread is Ed
> Striegel, owner of Striegel Supply Co., a
> Baltimore scrap dealer. That B&O #5300,
> B&O #4500, and RDG T-1's #2100 and 2101
> are still with us, is because Mr. Striegel
> had a sense of history.

> In the late 50's he purchased both of the
> above mentioned B&O engines at a scrap
> auction. He went back to the B&O and
> asked them if they shouldn't take them back
> for the museum, and they told him they
> didn't want them. He held onto them until
> the mid-60's, when new management was very
> happy to get them back for the museum.

> When the Reading discontinued their Rambles,
> they sold both of their remaining T-1's to
> Mr. Striegel in 1967. He held onto both of
> them until Ross Rowland came along, and the
> rest is history.

> If only Mr. Striegel could have grabbed an
> EM-1, or a T-3.

Kevin:

I had heard of Mr. Stiegel's hand in the preservation of the Reading 4-8-4's but not in the story of B&O #4500 and #5300. If it is true, then indeed, he should certainly be commended.


midlandblb@cs.com

Too bad there wasn't someone like Mr. Striegel to take all of the SR PS-4's that were offered to different cities and refused, as well as the Central of Georgia 4-8-4(Big Apple) that was cut up when no one wanted her.

Southeastern Railway Museum
sa750@boone.net

> If only Mr. Striegel could have grabbed an
> EM-1, or a T-3.

He kept a few ancient diesels around too. I went there just after the business was sold, in the late 1980's - just after they started cutting up a Washington & Old Dominion 70 tonner. The new owners cleaned house and we bought a truckload of parts. Seem to recall we found a couple of brand new steam engine parts in the warehouse, injectors if I remember correctly. They had the most amazing collection of parts for obsolete locomotive and marine engines.


AMaples@aol.com

> Too bad there wasn't someone like Mr.
> Striegel to take all of the SR PS-4's that
> were offered to different cities and
> refused, as well as the Central of Georgia
> 4-8-4(Big Apple) that was cut up when no one
> wanted her.

Two questions Andrew. First, I never heard that SR ever offered a PS-4 to anyone other than the Smithsonian. Did they in fact do so? I know that Graham Claytor tried to get SR to hold onto at least one without success.

Second, what happened to the C of G 4-8-4 in Columbus GA? Why was she cut up? She hadn't been retired very long when she was scrapped.


kevingillespie@usa.net

> Too bad there wasn't someone like Mr.
> Striegel to take all of the SR PS-4's that
> were offered to different cities and
> refused, as well as the Central of Georgia
> 4-8-4(Big Apple) that was cut up when no one
> wanted her.

And the same about other steam loco's in the 50's, case in point, Rutland 4-8-2's. Held in Rutland, VT yards for several years with no takers.

Thanks,
MAS


mark.stoeckel@rrd.com

> I've heard that at least a couple of Ps-4's were offered to cities along the Southern main, but were refused. The Big Apple, no. 451 I think, was donated to the city of Columbus upon her retirement. She sat in a park for a while and then the city decided they no longer had a place for her (much like Atlanta and A&WP 290 in Lakewood Park). I've heard that the engine was offered to the Atlanta Chapter NRHS, but at that time they had no place to store her. The engine was by all accounts cut up around 1962, just 5 years before the start of the SR steam program, for which she would have been a perfect fit. Every year or so a rumor pops up on one of these boards that she's still around, squirreled away in warehouse somewhere, but I find it highly unlikely that an engine that large would still be around and all of us preservationists not know about it!

Southeastern Railway Museum
sa750@boone.net

Thanks for the info. Very sad how shortsighted so many of our previous generation was when it came to historic preservation.

kevingillespie@usa.net

"Very sad how
> shortsighted so many of our previous
> generation was when it came to historic
> preservation."

To them it was just obsolete junk,
...much like a 486 computer or a Chevy Citation is viewed today.Besides, if the things were still common, many of the people that are active, and vocal would be busy doing other things.

There is a beautiful victorian station at West Pittsburgh, Pa. (South of New Castle) across from the Panella Company that is going to H---, almost nobody cares, it's in a too inconvenient of a location (and invisible from the highway) to attract supporters in situ, and WAY too costly to move.,,so there it sits, all forlorn. It probably is only still standing because of the expense involved in knocking it down. Sad? yup. I suppose either it will eventually fall down, or vandals will torch it, or somebody will decide its too big of an insurance risk.

The old B&O station in Evans City, Pa (Only passenger station in the eastern US built entirely over water) was torn down because CSX (then Chessie) didn't want the risk, and local groups couldn't pony up enough $$$ to move it.

Which is more shortsighted? To get rid of something nobody wants now, To keep something nobody wants, and let it fall in, Or to get rid of something somebody does want because of the time/money thing?

Catfish Hollow Toys

OK, I resemble that being of the generation that figured F units and Alco RS3s were going to be around forever. And yes, that is shortsighted, but then I also sold off my 1952 Dodge pickup for practically nothing.

Our tax and legal system combined with a somewhat punitive historic preservatipon bureaucracy actually hurt preservation efforts. Liability issues and incentives to scrap out after depreciation rather than rebuild and use up cost many potential recyclable and preservable things.

Historic preservation standards combined with the high cost of refusing to "grandfather" some parts or design characteristics in an effort to make old structures reflect modern codes and accessibility can make preservable renovation projects economically unfeasable despite minor tax incentives for preservation.

Historic District review comittees also tend to be appointed political positions with no specialized knowlege required to sit in judgement on what is historically appropriate or not within their purview.

I think most of us would accept steps that are not of modern design in stairways or that handicapped individuals may not be able to enjoy complete access to all parts of a preserved railroad station to losing that station because the cost of retrofitting the above items prohibit its reuse. If a doorway into an existing cloakroom in a station is a half inch narrower that modern codes require, should we knock out a healthy brick wall to enlarge it for minimal benefit at substantial cost?

Unfortunately, laws make no exceptions for rational thought and consideration.

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

Dave,
C'mon, a good lawyer can get you a variance. :)

...for about the same cost as actually doing the changes :(

Sometimes ya kin't win fer losin'..ja?


Catfish Hollow Toys

The issue is more complex then just hiring a good lawyer.(Are there any GOOD lawyers/).

Most appointed local historic commissions have to have their membership meet some defined selection criteria. The problem is that most political entities subvert the requirements so there is no balance of the local boards and they become nothing more than the "taste police". Too much of our industrial heritage has been lost due to the "taste police" and their focus, not on the big picture, but on the color of your "drapes".

The variance process is also a problem because the ADA is not a building code process but a "civil rights law". There is no basis for a variance to someone's civil rights except a law suit. Some of us regrettably know what that costs!

Earlier on there was a thread that discussed AAPRCO's need to have an exception or exemption built into the Federal ADA for Passenger Cars.Absent that exception, can you imagine what most operating rolling stock would look like?

This is not an issue that follows any logic. It is fraught with politics, advocacy, hypocrisy, and frustration.

v-scarpitti@worldnet.att.net