A non- rail friend asked me which line preserved the most engines.

The appendix in the back of J.David Conrad seems to indicate that the Southern Pacifiv did the most engines?

Any other good ways to make an estimate?

Ted

ted_miles@nps.gov

> A non- rail friend asked me which line
> preserved the most engines.

> The appendix in the back of J.David Conrad
> seems to indicate that the Southern Pacifiv
> did the most engines?

> Any other good ways to make an estimate?

> Ted

Ted:

An interesting question, and not one easy to answer. How many locomotives did the SP (or any railroad for that matter) preserve themselves, and how many SP engines were preserved by other people or organizations? If the SP sold a locomotive to a short line or industrial operation for instance, and that operation preserved the locomotive, then it is still a SP locomotive that was saved, but NOT by the railroad itself.

Another way to look at it is, how many miles long was the SP? How many locomotives did it save? What was the ratio? Perhaps a shorter rail line might have saved a saller amount of locomotives, but the ratio of what was saved vs. its route miles might have been greater. Perhaps a short line railroad might have had only one steam engine when it dieselized, but it saved that one locomotive!

There are a number of ways of looking at your friends question, including some I have not touched on. You can give him the SP as the answer but include the word, BUT.....!

Les
Pe

midlandblb@cs.com

If you go by the number of locomotives preserved divided by the number purchased I think the highest percentage might go to the East Broad Top.

Tom Gears

Seems there is a website which lists, state by state, where steam locomotives currently reside...even rusting hulks and carcasses. I cruised through that one night, and found it very good. If you are asking for a whole number saved (not divided by anything to create a per/this or per/that index), my vote goes to AT&SF.

Surprise finds? Frisco and Illinois Central!

amiller@rtms-movietrains.com

> Seems there is a website which lists, state
> by state, where steam locomotives currently
> reside...even rusting hulks and carcasses.

There's actually two sites:
www.steamlocomotive.com which is done by Wes Barris and;
www.steamlocomotive.info which I maintain

Milwaukee Road 261
dougb@sunserver.com

My "Surviving World Steam Locomotive" CD-ROM also lists 59 surviving AT&SF locomotives, of which 4 are sunk.

It is harder to search for Southern Pacific locomotives, since "SP" shows up in other names as well. But, with some adding/subtracting on paper, I come up with 64 locomotives, of which 4 are also sunk.

As pointed out earlier, some of the Southern Pacific locomotives came in preservation from gravel pits and other secondhand users. That seemed to be less of a case with the Santa Fe locomotives; in terms of direct donations I think Santa Fe might win by a hair; althought the Southern Pacific has one additional survivor.

Once again, this is shear numbers, not on a percentage basis. The D&RGW and W.T. Carter Bros. Lumber are two other railroads that had large percentages of their steam locomotives preserved. I think 100% of the W.T. Carter locomotives went into preservation, and several were still running at least until a few years ago.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> Seems there is a website which lists, state
> by state, where steam locomotives currently
> reside...even rusting hulks and carcasses. I
> cruised through that one night, and found it
> very good. If you are asking for a whole
> number saved (not divided by anything to
> create a per/this or per/that index), my
> vote goes to AT&SF.

> Surprise finds? Frisco and Illinois Central!


Surviving World Steam Locomotives
james@survivingworldsteam.com

> Seems there is a website which lists, state
> by state, where steam locomotives currently
> reside...even rusting hulks and carcasses. I
> cruised through that one night, and found it
> very good. If you are asking for a whole
> number saved (not divided by anything to
> create a per/this or per/that index), my
> vote goes to AT&SF.

> Surprise finds? Frisco and Illinois Central!

Art:

Reference your "surprise finds." It is true that the Frisco is fairly well represented with preserved steam locomotives (although quite a few of these were not preserved by the railroad itself but by second hand owners.) Still, I think the management of the SLSF at the time should be commended for its steam preservation program. As for your other "surprise find" the Illnois Central; I assume that what you mean by a "surprise" is the actual low number of IC steamers saved. The IC operated steam quite late (the last of its engines were in service in 1960!!) but actually did a poor job of preserving examples. And some of the lean total number were not saved by the railroad itself but by second hand owners.

Les

midlandblb@cs.com

The D&RGW and W.T. Carter Bros. Lumber are two other railroads > that had large percentages of their steam > locomotives preserved.

Actually, the Rio Grande's preservation policy was about as stingy as that of the New York Central. Al Perlman headed it before going to the NYC. The last time I checked there was only one standard gauge D&RGW steam locomotive preserved; a 2-8-0 at the Colorado Railroad Museum if my memory is correct.

All of the other surviving steamers are narrow gauge. Their survival was not due to any philanthopic foresight on the part of Rio Grande management, but due to the necessity to continue to operate the narrow gauge lines as required by the ICC up until 1968. They were forced to operate the Silverton train until its sale to Charles Bradshaw in 1981.

Had they been able to discontinue the Silverton train, and the rest of the narrow gauge network sooner, the number of preserved D&RGW steamers would be substantially less than it is.

kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net

...forced to operate the
> Silverton train until its sale to Charles
> Bradshaw in 1981.

> Had they been able to discontinue the
> Silverton train, and the rest of the narrow
> gauge network sooner, the number of
> preserved D&RGW steamers would be
> substantially less than it is.

Recall that the Rio Grande initially declined to join Amtrak, and kept the Zephyr running between Denver and Salt Lake City until after the sale of the Silverton train to Mr. Bradshaw.

Had the Rio Grande joined Amtrak while still owning and operating the Durango to Silverton passenger train, Amtrak could have deemed that train to have been "intercity" and taken it over.

A scary thought.

bruceman2@earthlink.net