> For that matter, do we really need 560
> 0-4-0s? Would we be better off if we
> scrapped 500 of them and used the funds on
> the other 60?

> Just looking for reactions.

> JAC

You know an 0-4-0 is as important to some people in Railroads History as a Big Boy. I am working on an 0-6-0t porter, I rather work on it then a LIRR Class G-5. People like small engines, they have a history in their own probly larger then say main line steam you look at how many of these engines went from Railroad to Railroad they have a colorful history. I much rater see more small engines saved because they are the true work horse of a railroad. There were some Railroads that had whole fleets of these little steamers so give them a chance. I may take heat for this but I rather see an 2-6-0 crapped then an 0-4-0t or an 0-6-0t.
Olaf The Red


BEDT15@aol.com

As a local to Southwest Virginia myself {I live about 20 miles from Pulaski, but I know next to nothing about THAT area} I have heard stories about the engines and an old passenger cars, Rumor was they where painted in the VERY OLD green scheme .

I have made trips to Pulaski to find this junkyard and have struck out, if someone could email me or post an street address of this junkyard, I can go their to take digital photo’s and post them within a few days!!! PLEASE HELP ME!!! Those Locomotive “diminutive they may be” have been the subject of much searching for me!!

AS for a place to run, let me put forth the Former N&W Saltville branch!! That is owned by the town of Saltville near Marion Virginia, they have a few miles of unused track, but that point is moot because Saltville also has 2 other steam locomotives that are in horrible shape {Rumor has it that they use a diesel to pull a couple of cabooses and some “box coaches “ a few times a year, I have seen their small diesel “SW1” I believe it is an SW1,and their outfit, it would be best described as “Shabby” the loco looks good though with its snazzy “Saltville railroad” logo ,

I am also thinking time is ticking on the railroad itself; to say a “tie renewal” is in order would be an understatement, the NS last used in the mid 80’s and the line has slumbered since in lonely neglect, the line was closed due to a sinkhole near the jctn with the mainline, and is NOT connected to the nation network, the sink hole was due to mining in the area,

http://www.saltvilleva.com/steam_trains.htm

a while back the town was DUPED by someone promising to “rebuild” the steam locomotives for about 2,500 apiece, the town paid up and the “fellow” was GONE, they seem not to realize the realities of running a railroad sadly

I used to have the links to local newspaper stories about the GLORIOUS rebirth and the "Money saving" they was getting for the 2,500 doller rebuild.I was planing on MAKEING CERTAIN I was a LONGGGGGGGG way from the town, just in case they was able to build ANY pressure in that boiler!! I used to have links to the newspaper articals,but they only bring up 404's now

Several years ago I believe that “Spencer Shops” NCTM, was wanting to lease the Locomotives and rebuild them, but the town would not hear of it, “so I was told” because they would need to leave the town

Andy J

> .............. wasn't there a serious
> proposal being floated by local
> government/tourism officials for a
> tourist-oriented excursion operation
> operating out of either Pulaski or Radford?

> Can you say "opportunism"? Not
> that I blame the guy, but.........


andyj@wythenet.com

Hi
I was talking to Gary Grey and he was telling me that the wooden Boxcars which were converted to crew cars have as much historical value as the Saddle Tank Engines. the wood is in very bad shape but the Steel frame is intact so the only thing necessary would be to rebuild the wooden parts. The pther car was a N&W Combine car which has been scrapped.
Andrew Martin
TWVRPS


amartin@wlu.edu

> Hi Folks
> Gary Grey called me tonite and was telling
> me that the scrap dealer in Pulaski VA:
> Where there are two Saddle Tank Engines (one
> Baldwin and one Porter) and some Wooden
> Boxcars: is thinking about scrapping them
> soon.Gary's contact said the dealer will
> wait for a while to see if a preservation
> group can or would be willing to try to
> acquire the equipment. does any one have any
> Ideas or suggestions. or is there anybody
> that can be contacted who might be able to
> help.
> The dealer is asking $18,000 each for the
> engines.

Uh OH! This is not a good sign! If this guy is the stereotypical scrap dealer, they're gonna be razor blades as soon as he has enough acetylene to do the job. He wants a totally unrealistic figure,and if nobody comes up with it, they're cut up! He probabably needs to fill up a trailer
to whoever he sells his scrap to. It doesn't matter HOW historic the pieces are, he thinks that if you're that crazy, you'll pay, and he can feed his dogs steak if he sells them. Sorry, that's what you're dealing with!


schwartzsj@juno.com

> Hi
> I was talking to Gary Grey and he was
> telling me that the wooden Boxcars which
> were converted to crew cars have as much
> historical value as the Saddle Tank Engines.
> the wood is in very bad shape but the Steel
> frame is intact so the only thing necessary
> would be to rebuild the wooden parts. The
> pther car was a N&W Combine car which
> has been scrapped.
> Andrew Martin

So, what kind of boxcars? I still have a pair of complete USRA double sheathed boxcar doors and all their hardware a couple miles from my home, but they'l be gone next spring, I'm sure.

> TWVRPS


dstorzek@elnet.com

I must respectfully disagree with Mr. Craft.

I have heard (and I don't have the reference materials to back this up, so feel free to correct me), that roughly 1/2 of the locomotives that were built for service in the U.S. were 0-4-0Ts. IF this is true, then a case could be made that these engines are actually under-represented, as a ratio of existing engines. Reversing the argument, perhaps to an absurd extreme: 4-8-8-4s are extremely over-represented in 2004. Should we scrap 6 or 7 of them, in order to bring the ratio back into balance?

Furthermore, if a particular Museum, in a particular location has an 0-4-0T, and a caboose (or an outside braced boxcar), is it incorrect for them to devote all of their efforts toward preservation and/or restoration to service?

The notion that, nationwide, there are a large number of a particular type of loco, and they don't deserve the level of respect that our favorite 2-8-2 / 4-6-2 / GP7 / GG1 should get, does not take into account the regional nature of the rail preservation business, and the wide geographic spread of those volunteers who are willing to work on such projects.

I volunteer at a Museum with an 0-4-0F, and an 0-4-0T. Neither are currently operational, but it is my earnest hope to someday see these engines operating. Our Museum might be able to support one or both of these engines, but I honestly doubt that something as big as a Mikado or Pacific is within our reach.

I'll be doing my best (along with a bunch of other folks) to raise the number of operating 0-4-0s by one or two more.

You wanted my reaction, and there it is.

John R.

> Ed, I'm gonna disagree. In part because I
> do, in part because I want to see how others
> react.

> Of the roughly 1,700 steam locos left in the
> USA, over 560 are 0-4-0 or 0-4-0t. One out
> of three, roughly. Wes Barris shows 75 (!)
> operational.

> Are these two were somehow worthy of special
> recognition? Or would plopping them down in
> a "Museum" somewhere simply
> consume funds and volunteer-hours that would
> be better spent on the other 558 0-4-0s
> remaining, or the coaches, or the track, or
> the . . .

> For that matter, do we really need 560
> 0-4-0s? Would we be better off if we
> scrapped 500 of them and used the funds on
> the other 60?

> Just looking for reactions.

> JAC


R&GV RR Museum Steam Locos

You can look up builders numbers in J. David Conrad's books. There is an appendix of them by builder, by owners and even the foreign built locos of which there are are a lot in the US

ted_miles@nps.gov

> AS for a place to run, let me put forth the
> Former N&W Saltville branch!! That is
> owned by the town of Saltville near Marion
> Virginia, they have a few miles of unused
> track, but that point is moot because
> Saltville also has 2 other steam locomotives
> that are in horrible shape {Rumor has it
> that they use a diesel to pull a couple of
> cabooses and some “box coaches “ a few times
> a year,

They no longer operate, the FRA came in and saw the track, that was it. It needs probably 9 out of every 10 ties replaced.

jasonsobczynski@yahoo.com

(And a personal peeve - save us from saddletank pulling a Streamliner coach and caboose long a weedy, almost abandoned

branch, and calling itself a "Museum of Railroading.")

I have to agree here, so my proposal is to buy the 0-4-0's and apply skyline shrouds to them. The continuity with the stainless steel fluted coach is far more authentic!


glueck@maine.edu

> P.S. Any body know where I can find both
> Porter and Baldwin records to look up the
> construction numbers?

Baldwin 57994, 9-1924, 14x22/180psi/38"driv 17,360 t.e. est. 60,000 lb. wt. spent all its life in Roanoke

Porter 7209, 11-1934, 14x22/140/38/13,503 est. 72,000 lb. wt. started its life in Marcus Hook, Pa. then went to Radford, Va.


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> I'm sorry, but there is no way that those
> locomotives that kind of money. Scrap is
> only bringing a penny or two a pound.

Better check the rates on scrap. This week I was advised that heavy metal prices are now over $200/ton which is more than 10 cents per pound. At these rates, which are the highest in years and years, I believe we will see a lot of endangered critters going to the torch. A lot of scrapyards 'bank' old iron hoping for the right market when it will be worthwhile to invest the labor to cut 'em up. Unfortunately the right market is here and now and that is the wrong market for anyone hoping to save some of these.

Bob Kutella


68trolley@comcast.net

A lot of pessimism in the above posts (as usual). As these engines were retired at least 40 years ago, the junk yard must have held onto them for some reason for all that time. The yard's ownership may have changed, and the new owner may be thinking of thinning his collection, but I'd bet the $18,000 price tag is just a feeler to see if the railroad crazies will bite. If they are serious about unloading them, an offer of scrap price plus some profit might be successful.

Given the number of new depot museums, I'll bet someone will want these engines, at least for display. While a saddletanker, boxcar and caboose is not the most authentic of displays to put in front of a depot, it is better than scrap. If we're as serious about railway preservation as we say we are, we'll try to find a home for these sad little teakettles.

ryarger@rypn.org

Also note that some saddletankers can be rebuilt into nice looking 2-4-0s, such as the narrow gauge example below. As such, they are more or less revisionary history, but better than scrap and cute besides.

http://timlinux.goshen.edu/pn/modules.php?set_albumName=miscparktrains&id=Slide059_002&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
ryarger@rypn.org

> I have to agree here, so my proposal is to
> buy the 0-4-0's and apply skyline shrouds to
> them. The continuity with the stainless
> steel fluted coach is far more authentic!

Nah, trade them for one of the later Porter fireless engines with the skyline casing, and place it in front of the train! :)

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a


Surviving World Steam Project
james@survivingworldsteam.com