Hi all,

Just read Eric's posting. Can't really tell from the pictures, but this loco that he says might be better off cut up than to languish in its current display doesn't look all that bad to my eyes! A cosmetic restoration can do wonders. I've seen other equipment that untrained eyes think is junk, but just has surface deterioration, be brought back, even to operation.
Just was thinking that, before we even mention the "S" word, how about saving words?? If movement to a better display area is impossible, maybe changing the current display area is??
Steamcerely,
David Dewey

djdewey@cncnet.com

Some peoples idea of unrestoreable and others don't match. To me that locomotive may look sad and forgotten, but no piece of historic rail equipment should be put to the torch in this day and age especially steam. Time and money are all that is required to make her whole again. I've seen people take a frame of a pre 1910 car and build a whole car from scratch, so it's not impossible, it just takes people to get interested in it. I hope there are many others that see it my way.

Keep em runnin!!!

gnufe@apex.net

Thee is nothing rotting in Lynchburg that couldn't be restored or conserved and protected provided anybody wants to pay for it. It is a shame that the city itself couldn't find the pittance to keep tight fencing and roofs on the stuff, especially given the massive funds cities waste on housing bums, paying unwed teens to reproduce, and converting natural habitat to asphalt repositories.

It seems a matter of priorities. Is there a city subsidized historic preservation or cultural organization that might sponsor the project?

Dave

irondave@bellsouth.net

> Thee is nothing rotting in Lynchburg that
> couldn't be restored or conserved and
> protected provided anybody wants to pay for
> it.

Agreed. The problem is nobody in the city government seems to want to pay for it, and no volunteer group has stepped up to the plate to tackle the responsibility.

The issue of city-funded repairs has been raised many times in the local press; conincidentally, there was a letter to the editor on the subject the week I was there. So far, the response seems to be "ignore the issue and it'll go away."

Sidebar--OK, folks, I'll pull in my horns--perhaps I was a little heated in my tone in the Brief itself. I don't want to see the engine destroyed, and it's not too far gone to make a good cosmetic display. Hence the weasel words like "maybe" when I raised the subject of the torch. However, I did and do want to call attention to the severity of the neglect.

eledbetter@rypn.org

> Agreed. The problem is nobody in the city
> government seems to want to pay for it, and
> no volunteer group has stepped up to the
> plate to tackle the responsibility.

> The issue of city-funded repairs has been
> raised many times in the local press;
> conincidentally, there was a letter to the
> editor on the subject the week I was there.
> So far, the response seems to be
> "ignore the issue and it'll go
> away."

> Sidebar--OK, folks, I'll pull in my
> horns--perhaps I was a little heated in my
> tone in the Brief itself. I don't want to
> see the engine destroyed, and it's not too
> far gone to make a good cosmetic display.
> Hence the weasel words like
> "maybe" when I raised the subject
> of the torch. However, I did and do want to
> call attention to the severity of the
> neglect.

Eric (and RYPN):

You (and others) seem to be talking about a BRIEF that is not on my computer (my last entry was for 1/19/01.) My GUESS, from what's been said here on the Interchange page, is that you're talking about the C&O Kanawha and other equipment at Lynchburg, Virginia. Can you confirm? And also, what happened to the Brief? I'd like to comment, but would prefer to see what was originally said. Thanks.


midlandblb@cs.com

> I thought *maybe* you were overstating your feelings in the hopes of garnering some action, but many don't understand the nature of artifact deterioration and its prevention, and cosmetic reversal/stabilization. Enough so that such "suggestions" in an attempt to get preservation going, backfire, and result in destruction instead!
I do wonder how difficult removal from the site would be. I participated in the removal of a smaller, but full-sized locomotive a few years ago that had sat for some 40 years, and the track had sunk enough that the rail ends had pushed the footboard brackets up. The bearings were quite serviceable for light moves after careful removal of exposed surface rust. Though that did take a week of work for a small, fairly well-equipped crew.
Hmm, given time and funding almost anything is possible!
Steamcerely,
David D.

djdewey@cncnet.com

> I do wonder how difficult removal from the
> site would be.

I took a long look at the site with that in mind. Now I'm no mechanical engineer and not really a qualified judge, but here's the deal as I saw it:

1. getting the engine out on track. Would require clearing second-growth scrub off the original spur grade and relaying panel track (maybe Chinese fire drill style) to get the engine approx 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile down to the NS main. Tough but doable.

2. By crain. This is an awfully difficult site, because the engine is sitting in the trough of a fairly significant ravine. As far as I could tell, you would have to hoist it up vertically about 25-30 feet and horizontally about 100 yards to get it onto a lowboy on the paved access road which rund parallel to the ravine but halfway up its north slope. And that road itself is on a pretty sharp descending grade. It would be an awfully interesting exercise.

eledbetter@rypn.org

I read Eric's brief with much interest. The only time I saw #2760 was in 1974. She was a basket case then. At the time, there was an acetylene tank behind the fence, because they had just cut away her boiler jacket and removed the lagging. Apparently nothing has been done to the engine in the intervening 27 years.

She is far and away the most awful example of a neglected park engine that I have ever seen. I don't want to get her cut up, but perhaps a letter writing campaign to the city fathers of Lynchburg might get something done. If the city doesn't want her, perhaps they would be willing to pay the cost of getting her out of that park, so she can be moved to a museum where she can receive some care. I know there are 11 other C&O 2-8-4's surviving, but in this day and age every surviving steam locomotive counts.

As I recall the coach was from the Southern. It was in marginal shape then, and I can only imagine how much forther it has deteriorated.

kevingillespie@usa.net

I, for one, do not feel the condition of this locomotive (and many others) can be laid upon city officials. They have a tough enough job balancing budgets and coming up with money for schools, roads, etc., etc., and have no expertise in such matters. Much of the shame for this locomotive's sad appearance lies within the rail enthusiast community, which has obviously made little effort there over the last 40 years. Most every town has a few people who like trains. It would only take a handful of people to work on cosmetically restoring this behemoth, and the cost would not be terribly high, with asbestos removal probably the highest single expense. It involves a great deal of elbow grease and time (perhaps a decade), but is within the realm of novices who have proper guidance from the experts of steam. Sources of local, state and federal funds could likely be found by committed volunteers.

Unless new construction has covered the grade over which this engine traveled to the site, rolling it out again over panel tracks via the same route should not be impossible. It could clearly benefit from a better display site. I've never been to Lynchburg, but looking at an area railfan website, I note the former Southern Ry. depot there is still in use by Amtrak, and a former C&O coaling tower still exists. The Union Station (which I presume C&O used)was torn down in 1966 and replaced with a modern metal building by the N&W. I'd prefer a C&O roundhouse, of course, but I don't believe any exist today.

When my frozen, arthritic fingers throw away the last lantern and switchlist in 7 years, 8 months and 7 days (but who's counting?), I hope to make such a restoration my main activity of retirement. Having having worked on another engine for nine years previous to having to move, I can attest that there are few more satisfying things than freeing up ashpan slides and cleaning out a firebox, or shoveling buckets of rust out of a tender tank, in the dark and on your knees.

Railway Preservation News
ryarger1@nycap.rr.com

> Unless new construction has covered the
> grade over which this engine traveled to the
> site, rolling it out again over panel tracks
> via the same route should not be impossible.

Would take some brush clearing, but otherwise ues, it's very possible

> It could clearly benefit from a better
> display site. I've never been to Lynchburg,
> but looking at an area railfan website, I
> note the former Southern Ry. depot there is
> still in use by Amtrak,

And indeed, that's the logical place for it, especially as 1. the depot is getting a complete State-funded facelift right now and 2. that station is on the exact smae streatch of former SR main to which the park spur connected.



eledbetter@rypn.org

> I took a long look at the site with that in
> mind. Now I'm no mechanical engineer and not
> really a qualified judge, but here's the
> deal as I saw it:

> 1. getting the engine out on track. Would
> require clearing second-growth scrub off the
> original spur grade and relaying panel track
> (maybe Chinese fire drill style) to get the
> engine approx 1/4 mile to 1/2 mile down to
> the NS main. Tough but doable.

> 2. By crain. This is an awfully difficult
> site, because the engine is sitting in the
> trough of a fairly significant ravine. As
> far as I could tell, you would have to hoist
> it up vertically about 25-30 feet and
> horizontally about 100 yards to get it onto
> a lowboy on the paved access road which rund
> parallel to the ravine but halfway up its
> north slope. And that road itself is on a
> pretty sharp descending grade. It would be
> an awfully interesting exercise.
Any folks interested in innovative ideas for removing locomotives or cars from display areas should consult the Illinois Railway Museum. They rescued several locomotives and interurban from areas that many would consider impossible. The ATSF 2903 from downtown Chicago at the museum of Science & Industry is a case in point. They used the panel track method to move it a great distance across a park, then down city streets, through a gas station and up an elevated bank to finally reach active rails. Several interurbans have been rescued from lakefront homesites that were now heavily wooded lots, that probably were clear when the cars were placed there. I would say that the best option would be for some museum that doesn't have one of these to step up to the table with a plan to retrieve it from the park, as it is obvious that the city has proved to be a poor caretaker of the locomotive. Contact the IRM and work out a plan and launch a fund drive for the costs. I believe that there are some sites in Indiana that are not out of reason for a significant addition.

SACarlso@scj.com

> Any folks interested in innovative ideas for
> removing locomotives or cars from display
> areas should consult the Illinois Railway
> Museum. They rescued several locomotives and
> interurban from areas that many would
> consider impossible. The ATSF 2903 from
> downtown Chicago at the museum of Science
> & Industry is a case in point. They used
> the panel track method to move it a great
> distance across a park, then down city
> streets, through a gas station and up an
> elevated bank to finally reach active rails.
> Several interurbans have been rescued from
> lakefront homesites that were now heavily
> wooded lots, that probably were clear when
> the cars were placed there. I would say that
> the best option would be for some museum
> that doesn't have one of these to step up to
> the table with a plan to retrieve it from
> the park, as it is obvious that the city has
> proved to be a poor caretaker of the
> locomotive. Contact the IRM and work out a
> plan and launch a fund drive for the costs.
> I believe that there are some sites in
> Indiana that are not out of reason for a
> significant addition.

Thanks for the kind words about our "body snatchers" and "steam team" personnel's ability to move just about anything. Moving ATSF 2903 was a year-long saga that was eventually worth it, but the cost (not in money, but in effort) was extreme.

One funny that occurred to us very late one night after an extremely long and frustrating day of moving that beast--It's 3 AM, and we've just moved 2903 across a city street and tied up until daylight, right next to Lake Shore Drive. Now, imagine the office worker who had stayed late, then stopped off at the bar and had a few pops before heading for home, south along Lake Shore Drive. And as he's trying to get home, driving carefully, he looks to his right and suddenly sees a 121' long steam locomotive surrounded by police cars, crowds of onlookers, etc. With any luck at all, we may have driven a few people to AA that night!


Kevinmccabe@avenew.com

> Hi all,

I have been collecting railroad post cards for years. have a lot of park engines etc. Most of the time park engines don't do all that well. Here in the San Francisco Bay Area they are all either in museums or else scrapped i.e. the SF Zoo engine.

In regard to Lynchburg, that Virginian Caboose must be pretty unique. I only know of two other
pieces in preservation. I think that the Virginia Museum of Transport has a Freight Motor and a caboose. I may also be thinking of an 0-6-0 switcher, mentioned as the only Virginian steam engine left. Are there any of the motors that went to the New Haven left? TM



AMILES1060@aol.com

I think that the
> Virginia Museum of Transport has a Freight
> Motor and a caboose. I may also be thinking
> of an 0-6-0 switcher, mentioned as the only
> Virginian steam engine left. Are there any
> of the motors that went to the New Haven
> left? TM

The Freight Motor came to the Museum via the New Haven, Penn Central, and Conrail. Stuart Saunders, the N&W President at the time of dieselization would have never donated anything to a museum. The Virginian had set aside several locomotives for preservation, and all of them went to scrap immediately after the N&W takeover.

#611 survived because of the intervention of O. Winston Link, and #2156 got to St. Louis, probably without his knowledge. #1218 was sold to Union Carbide for use as a stationery boiler, and ultimately acquired by Steamtown.



kevingillespie@usa.net

> In regard to Lynchburg, that Virginian
> Caboose must be pretty unique.

Hmm. There's a wooden caboose in a park in Romeoville, IL (of all places) lettered VIRGINIAN. But I suppose it must be a fake.