I am continuing my fancy for ideas that seem to be working in England. Of recent note is the Swanage Railway's Booze Cruise.

"Booze Cruises" have been popular events for years. Usually they entail bus rides to multiple pubs, or a boat ride with unlimited beer and food.

The Swanage picked up on the idea, and has run their own cruises. The steam-powered trains are stocked with brew and grub from a local pub and operated on 3 round trips in an evening (they have just under 12 miles of track). The riders pay one price and can ride as long as they like.

Personally, I love this idea, as it makes the steam train "part" of the reason to go out, but not the whole reason. Thus, you have a chance to appeal to a wider audience. Especially the DINKS (DUAL INCOME NO KIDS) who spend way more dough than the soccer moms.

By creating an outing for the DINKS, you can reach a new audience and make the train part of a "cool" event.

I like the idea. I think some of our readers have done wine and cheese specials. What's been the outcome?

Rob

> I am continuing my fancy for ideas that seem
> to be working in England. Of recent note is
> the Swanage Railway's Booze Cruise.

Rob, I suppose your being a little colloquial with the term “booz cruise” but you really have to be careful when you mix trains and alcohol (passengers) -I’m not forgetting “Rule G”.

By way of experience: In the mid to late 90’s a short-lived microbrewery was built in the Poconos along the old Lackawanna mainline. The brewery contacted Steamtown about running a special train. It was sort of an “Oktoberfest”. It was not intended as an opportunity to consume to the point of inebriation AND consumption was allowed only on the brewery but nonetheless a few folks did have more than they could handle - several grew “beer muscles” and became surly with other passengers and the crew on the way back.

I suppose the key is marketing. If youÂ’re getting connoisseurs then youÂ’ll have a Napa Valley or Old Kentucky Dinner Train operation. If its free or low cost-a promotion-youÂ’ll get the happy hour crowd and attendent problems.

Does anybody from NV or OKDT peruse rypn?

One final thought-what about the insurance angle? You can bet itÂ’ll be a HUGE underwriting consideration.


superheater@rrmail.com

Having spent some 11 years earning a paycheck by riding under a set of blue lights, I wish to weigh in on this issue.

First, I showed this thread to my railroad insurance underwriter. Not much surprises her these days. But, after she recovered her breath, she stated it would be highly unwise to ever get involved in an event that so openly promoted alcohol. In her view, the risks of even a safely run passenger train and railroad property go exponential when coupled to a "Booz Cruise." Just think, she opined, what a good plaintiff's lawyer could do before a jury by simply pounding on the name "Booz Cruise."

Second, IMHO, we demean the seriousness of railroad preservation and those of us thereto committed if we openly embrace events whose underlying (*wink*wink*) sole purpose is to "get blistered." Not that I don't enjoy a good glass of Napa Valley Cabernet or a "cold one" after a museum work session. That is not the point. The railroad preservation movement needs to do all possible to put its best foot forward whenever possible. And, finally, there are so many other revenue raising events that do not involve the stigma or risks.

amiller@rtms-movietrains.com

Didn't the Sierra Railroad for years back in the 70's run wine and cheese trains? I remember hearing they were really popular. Seems like a tasteful event with quality wines and brew (not yellow fizzy beer) would have some possibilities.

Richard Wilkens

> I am continuing my fancy for ideas that seem
> to be working in England. Of recent note is
> the Swanage Railway's Booze Cruise.

> "Booze Cruises" have been popular
> events for years. Usually they entail bus
> rides to multiple pubs, or a boat ride with
> unlimited beer and food.

> The Swanage picked up on the idea, and has
> run their own cruises. The steam-powered
> trains are stocked with brew and grub from a
> local pub and operated on 3 round trips in
> an evening (they have just under 12 miles of
> track). The riders pay one price and can
> ride as long as they like.

> Personally, I love this idea, as it makes
> the steam train "part" of the
> reason to go out, but not the whole reason.
> Thus, you have a chance to appeal to a wider
> audience. Especially the DINKS (DUAL INCOME
> NO KIDS) who spend way more dough than the
> soccer moms.

> By creating an outing for the DINKS, you can
> reach a new audience and make the train part
> of a "cool" event.

> I like the idea. I think some of our readers
> have done wine and cheese specials. What's
> been the outcome?

> Rob

> Rob, I suppose your being a little
> colloquial with the term “booz cruise” but
> you really have to be careful when you mix
> trains and alcohol (passengers) -IÂ’m not
> forgetting “Rule G”.

No, it was marketed under the name "Booze Cruise" just as the many bus and ship-related "Booze Cruises" do here in the NYC area.

That's why it grabbed my attention. It was a blatant attempt to do something on the rails that other modes of transportation have been doing here in the states for quite sometime.

Rob

OK, get the insurance agents off the floor. This is legit and *works* apparently in other forms of transportation. This is one case where thinking outside the box may have some advantage.

Here's the link to the Swanage Booze Cruise train:
http://www.swanagerailway.co.uk/news201.htm

The yacht Half Moon Booze Cruises NYC:
http://newyorkboozecruise.com/

A casual search around the internet will find ship Booze Cruises and bus Pub Crawls all over.

Like it or not, the word from the Swanage seems to be quite positive.

Rob

> I like the idea. I think some of our readers
> have done wine and cheese specials. What's
> been the outcome?

I was involved in the early days of the "EnterTrainment Line" that operated over the Maryland Midland Railway.

Our evening trains were essentially "party trains" with a buffet meal, open bar, DJ and dance floor, all included in one ticket price. Three and a half hour trip, Friday and Saturday nights.

This was strictly a commercial venture and not related to railroad preservation.

We obtained a Maryland state railroad liquor license - I believe Amtrak and CSX had the only other two at the time.

We did have some alcohol-related incidents, although I don't remember anything too serious. We put our staff through the same alcohol-management classes that most restaurant servers attend. To the best of my knowledge, there were no particular issues with our insurance carrier, but this was 10+ years ago.

What trouble we did have usually came from groups who arrived on a bus. Not only did they often have a beer or two on the way over, but they usually felt more at liberty to drink on the train. Every once and a while we had to deal with the "ugly drunk".

Based on my experience, I would approach this carefully. I do not see a problem serving alcohol in conjunction with a meal, but I am not sure I would want to make it the focus of the excursion.

I have been aboard many railroad office car specials, and of course the railroads traditionally have full bar service for their guests. But with few rare exceptions, those who imbibe do so in moderation and the circumstances are very different anyway.

Alan Maples


AMaples@aol.com

The markets for such operations have to be considered carefully--but it's there.

Britain has a terrific number of "real ale" excursion specials. The MAJOR difference is, these trains are usually set up with local chapters of the Campaign for Real Ale, a British craft-beer preservation advocacy group. These beer drinkers are snobs and geeks that sometimes put wine snobs to shame--the mission of their outings is the cause of "real ale", unpasteurized, unfiltered, and carbonated by natural fermentation instead of forced CO2. I have seen firkins of real ale hoisted into the buffets of mainline excursions, often beers brewed specifically for the occasion. The CAMRA guys are to Bud-swillers at the football game what Carl Franz photo special riders are to daily commuter riders! No comparison. (And I won't even mention the Strathspey Railway's whisky-tasting buffet car, stocked with over 50 single malts and liqueurs!)

America has similar beer groups, such as the American Homebrewing Association (which once brewed a batch of beer aboard a privately-chartered railroad car en route to one convention!), Brewers United for Real Potables (BURP!), and others. Their cooperation could be solicited in certain markets. More realistically, however, certain states have "difficult" alcohol regulations that would curtail both the ability for such a trip to be operated and/or the quality of the beer that could be offered. Utah and South Carolina, for example, should be regarded as lost causes, with Pennsylvania not far behind.

Britain is also a land where beer drinking is an entirely different part of the culture. This is not the place to get into a discussion of the merits or lack thereof of British versus American alcohol regulations, but the fact is that in the UK I have witnessed pubs set up in the stations at each end of the Severn Valley Railway, and steam-banking crews having a pint at a nearby pub ON DUTY in between pushing assignments on one excursion line--with no ill effect.

Trust me, such a "beer train" (or wine, or bourbon) could be operated in the USA, with certain caveats to appease the insurers: serve only the appointed beers/drinks, only in select quantities, with plenty of food as well to soak up the booze, all for a set price. Remove all the incentive to consume as much as possible for the buck or within a certain time limit. At worst, open up the cask for help in emptying at the very end of the ride. Also, set the price high enough to discourage the drunks. There are better ways to get tipsy than spending $30-50 for a limited amount of potables.

For the record, by the way, excellent trackside brewpubs are located in Green Bay, Wisconsin; Flossmoor and Aurora, Ill.; Greensburg, Pa.; and Youngstown, Ohio. Titletown Brewing in Green Bay (which now has Todd Ashman, the award-winning brewer from Flossmoor!) has in the past had coupons for their beers at the National Railway Museum. If any beer/train alliance could be forged, Green Bay would be the place!


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

Re Youngstown, OH-do you remember the name or any other particulars? I know some railfans who'd like to visit it!

> Re Youngstown, OH-do you remember the name
> or any other particulars? I know some
> railfans who'd like to visit it!

It probably can't get any easier. It's located in the ex-B&O depot, where Amtrak stops. See links below. Unfortunately, it's about the only station brewpub east of the Missouri I haven't managed to visit so far.


B&O Station Brewery, Youngstown, OH

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

>
> For the record, by the way, excellent
> trackside brewpubs are located in Green Bay,
> Wisconsin; Flossmoor and Aurora, Ill.;
> Greensburg, Pa.; and Youngstown, Ohio.
> Titletown Brewing in Green Bay (which now
> has Todd Ashman, the award-winning brewer
> from Flossmoor!) has in the past had coupons
> for their beers at the National Railway
> Museum. If any beer/train alliance could be
> forged, Green Bay would be the place!

That would do wonders for our image as a drinking town with a football problem up here in Green Bay! It might even help to tarnish our image as "the frozen tundra" (Although the temp yeserday morning was -12 degrees with a wind chill of -35 or so) Sandy, when you guys are finished putting your museum back together, invite the 261 out there and I'll ask Todd the brewmaster for a special brew to be delivered to you personally!


eselinsky@new.rr.com

Perfect! Thanks-and cheers!

> OK, get the insurance agents off the floor.
>
Would love to, but until we get control of the tort bar-probably can't.

Our British friends of course, have a slighly different legal system- user pays.

superheater@rrmail.com

> By creating an outing for the DINKS, you can
> reach a new audience and make the train part
> of a "cool" event.

> I like the idea. I think some of our readers
> have done wine and cheese specials. What's
> been the outcome?

> Rob

RMNE and the Naugatuck Railroad Co. plan on getting back into the swing of offering wine tasting train rides in 2004 with our trademark special event, the Vintage Express. Our first one, after a 2-year hiatus, was in October 2003 and was organized as a fundraiser for the Railroad Museum of New England. It was a very successful event with a 3-hour slowly moving train ride, 9 wine distributors providing tastings of over 56 wines, tasty appetizers donated from area restaurants, 150 happy ticket buyers and about 20 sponsors underwriting most of the expenses. We see this event as a key Fall fundraiser, but will also plan on offering many more scaled-back versions in the late spring and through the fall season, when we're not planning DOWT.

Railroad Museum of New England's Vintage Express
CECHLIN@earthlink.net