Hmmm "Old Maud" (B&O's and US first Mallet) was held for display at the 1927 Fair of the Iron Horse and later scrapped. Per Larry Sagle in "B&O Power"

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

What about the batteries? For instance, if a diesel is idling, or even dead for that matter, and an EMP is encountered, as long as the batteries continue to have a charge, then the locomotive could be restarted. This assumes that the EMP has a long enough effect to momentarily shut down the fuel pump and other control devices on the idling/running locomotive.

All of the fields, relays, and such have live fields, so once power is restored to the initiating field (the engine start and control circuits in this case, both powered by battery)everything else should take off like nothing ever happened. What difference does it make why the current flow and fields were terminated? This assumes that the loco was not too close to the origin of the EMP, of course! Thus melting the wires, all rubber, carbody. . . .
;-)

Ryan

lima709@usadaily.net

> This statement may be a myth in some cases
> but not all. Santa Fe shopped their big
> steam power right up to the end in spite of
> the impending doom. The 2921 located in
> Modesto was the lowest mileage 2900 in the
> donated batch with a scant 9,000 miles on
> her. Of course it isn't the mileage or lack
> of mileage that has done in these
> locomotives and as everyone knows it was
> time and weather. The 2921 now looks like
> she had a million miles on her

Adam, I believe that was true of most of the RRs. They couldn't take the chance of being without power. Our 2500 is an example. After a class 5 it made one trip. On that trip the front pilot axle ran hot and was replaced. The next trip the engine made was behind a switcher that brought her uptown so we could start moving her to the park.
The last engine outshopped at Paducah was 2-10-2 2741 on March 12, 1958. After her break-in run she
was parked in the Paducah roundhouse until she was hauled out to be scrapped.

Jim


rrfanjim@charter.net

How about some photos and information on your work on this handsome engine?

Our 2500 is an example. After
> a class 5 it made one trip. On that trip the
> front pilot axle ran hot and was replaced.
> The next trip the engine made was behind a
> switcher that brought her uptown so we could
> start moving her to the park.

Jim


ryarger@rypn.org

That a barn door will swing open in the woods of northern Maine and a whole bunch of Maine Two Foot steamers will be found. I'm still hoping for that one.
-justin

qcmrs18@yahoo.com

There are probably VERY few diesel locomotives running today that don't have some form of solid state equipment applied. Even on the old stuff, most of the battery charging controls (moving coil regulators and batery charge contactors) have been replaced with solid state regulators and a reverse current diode.

> What about the batteries? For instance, if a
> diesel is idling, or even dead for that
> matter, and an EMP is encountered, as long
> as the batteries continue to have a charge,
> then the locomotive could be restarted. This
> assumes that the EMP has a long enough
> effect to momentarily shut down the fuel
> pump and other control devices on the
> idling/running locomotive.

> All of the fields, relays, and such have
> live fields, so once power is restored to
> the initiating field (the engine start and
> control circuits in this case, both powered
> by battery)everything else should take off
> like nothing ever happened. What difference
> does it make why the current flow and fields
> were terminated? This assumes that the loco
> was not too close to the origin of the EMP,
> of course! Thus melting the wires, all
> rubber, carbody. . . .
> ;-)

> Ryan


newhaven0401-NOSPAM-@verizon.net

Wern't several of the preserved NKP berks also the receipients of overhauls and shoppings before going on display? I seem to remember that 759 and 765 both recieved major shoppings before they were both placed on display? Likewise 779 had the lowest mileage of the S3s before it was placed on display in Lima. Also, if I remember, the one in Roanoke and Strasburg languised on NKP property until after the merger with N&W, but I don't think they were in great shape.

david.wilkins@bardstown.com

> Adam, I believe that was true of most of the
> RRs. They couldn't take the chance of being
> without power. Our 2500 is an example. After
> a class 5 it made one trip. On that trip the
> front pilot axle ran hot and was replaced.
> The next trip the engine made was behind a
> switcher that brought her uptown so we could
> start moving her to the park.
> The last engine outshopped at Paducah was
> 2-10-2 2741 on March 12, 1958. After her
> break-in run she
> was parked in the Paducah roundhouse until
> she was hauled out to be scrapped.

> Jim
Hello don't forget the cnr mike at st. it was shoped and never ran untilmsold to that guy in
ashland,Pa. The cnr shopped steam until about 1958 or1959 at
stratford. Ont lots of them never ran until cutup. bb

The opposite was the PRR which did NOT shop engines and got caught short in 1956. They leased the RDG T-1's and ATSF 5011's because they didn't have enough of their own engines in running condition.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Not so far fetched? I recall visiting the Alice Ramsdell farm in eastern Connecticut one fall day. Alice brought uws out back and opened the door to her barn to show us that 2-foot loco just a-sittin' there!

I was expecting it, but it was a surreal experience none the less.

Jim Vaitkunas
Como-Harriet Streetcar Line
Apple Valley, Monn.

http://www.mtmuseum.org
jvaitkunas@msn.com

> Not so far fetched? I recall visiting the
> Alice Ramsdell farm in eastern Connecticut
> one fall day. Alice brought uws out back and
> opened the door to her barn to show us that
> 2-foot loco just a-sittin' there!

> I was expecting it, but it was a surreal
> experience none the less.

> Jim Vaitkunas
> Como-Harriet Streetcar Line
> Apple Valley, Monn.

And now that very loco is back in Maine, on home rails no less, at the Wiscasset Waterville & Farmington Railway Museum. It is hoped that enough funds have been raised to order a new boiler this year, and soon old #9 will steam down the track for the first time since 1933. See www.wwfry.org for more info.


K4s1361@hotmail.com

> The opposite was the PRR which did NOT shop
> engines and got caught short in 1956. They
> leased the RDG T-1's and ATSF 5011's because
> they didn't have enough of their own engines
> in running condition.

That wasn't the first time the PRR got caught short. In the early 50's, they leased engines from the RF&P, the RDG, the WM and the U.S. Army, among others, when they didin't have enough of their own to handle the traffic.

K4s1361@hotmail.com

What a sight that is going to be. What a place too, if you have not been to the WW&F go. It is the closest thing to a time warp.

-justin

> And now that very loco is back in Maine, on
> home rails no less, at the Wiscasset
> Waterville & Farmington Railway Museum.
> It is hoped that enough funds have been
> raised to order a new boiler this year, and
> soon old #9 will steam down the track for
> the first time since 1933. See www.wwfry.org
> for more info.


qcmrs18@yahoo.com

> How about some photos and information on
> your work on this handsome engine?

> Our 2500 is an example. After

> Jim
Thanks Bob; I'll see what we can do on that.We
have a couple on the committee where the wife is a whiz at posting pictures. If I can't get some posted we'll fall back on her skills.
When we were moving the engine I was too busy to get pictures but a friend recently sent me an excellent batch of the first part of the move. I might add a couple of those.
Jim

rrfanjim@charter.net

> Eric and all:

> Sadly, there's pile after pile of PRR
> official correspondence in the files at the
> Hagley archives that tells a grim story
> about the T1s, as well as the S1 and S2.
> None of it is good news for T1 fans. Dozens
> of road failures, long out-of-service times
> due to shoppings, engines held waiting for
> arrival of nonstandard parts, major and
> minor design flaws, etc. Even aggravatingly
> simple things like the cabs of the T1s not
> having enough room for the enginemen to
> place their feet comfortably.

> As Eric suggested, with some tweaking it's
> possible that they could have become the
> engines their designer (Baldwin) had in
> mind. What struck me in reading page after
> page of these memos was that this was so
> unlike the design and service record
> experience of the next generation back, i.e.
> the K4-L1-I1-M1 generation. For the most
> part, those engines did what their designers
> asked of them without significant flaws and
> without a lot of aftermarket fiddling. What
> also is a mystery is why the gross failures
> didn't show up (or if they did, why they
> were covered up) as red flags in the
> prototype pair built in 1942 (Nos.
> 6110-6111).

> In current technology terms, the T1 reminds
> me of nothing so much as Bill Gates' MS
> Windows operating system: Great concept and
> powerful applications *if* you can get it to
> work flawlessly. Which no one ever has--even
> the computer geeks among us aren't immune to
> Bill's bugs. He's certainly cemented the
> word "reboot" into the American
> lexicon.

> The T1 was supposed to eat the diesels'
> lunch, but it turned out to be the other way
> around. In 1946-48, management had a
> railroad to run, inflationary costs to
> wrestle, deferred wartime maintenance and
> capitalization to catch up on, and new
> postwar competitors (plentiful autos and
> tax-funded highways) to fight. PRR declared
> its first-ever loss in 1946, its centennial
> year. What a way to celebrate! Both
> passengers and shippers were deserting in
> droves; companies were moving plants to the
> South and Southwest. In short, trying to
> rely on a marquee passenger locomotive
> design that was temperamental did only one
> thing: It fried what little patience
> management had left.

> Jim Symes had been a VP in Chicago (not
> insulated/isolated as in Philly or Altoona)
> and was in a position to see first-hand what
> diesels were doing on the Santa Fe,
> Burlington, Rock Island, etc. That allowed
> him to argue persuasively against the
> entrenched motive power gurus who wanted $1m
> to spend on developing the proposed V1
> 4-8-4-8 turbine, when PRR couldn't even get
> its single S2 turbine, No. 6200, of 1944 to
> work right.

> When the E unit design proved to be nearly
> as reliable as the GG1, it should come as no
> surprise that the railroad said, in effect,
> "Hello, La Grange? We'll take 134 of
> those--with gold pinstripes, please!"

> Mark Reutter covered much of this in far
> greater detail in his piece "The Great
> (Motive) Power Stuggle: the Pennsylvania
> Railroad vs. General Motors,
> 1935-1949," pubslihed in R&LHS's
> Railroad History No. 170, Spring 1994.

> Dan Cupper
> Harrisburg, Pa.

Dan, when you mention the Pensy K-4 you are talking about an engine that I fell in love with.
About 6 days a week for several years I was in St. Elmo, Il. around noon. That was the time of day when the east and west bound sections of the Spirit of St.Louis met on the long turnouts east of town between there and Altamont, IL.
The crossing watchman at St.Elmo walked out and held his sign up according to due time of the east bound. A few minutes after he blew his whistle you would hear the whistle of the approaching train. After it passed , the watchman still stood there blowing his whistle and holding
up his sign and in a little you would hear a train comin from the east.
Both trains came thru town about 95 MPH powered
by double headed K-4's and even at that speed
their exhaust was a sharp, thrilling staccato.
They were remarkable engines to say the least.
Jim


rrfanjim@mvn.net