Here's a project to make ours look trivial. Raising (at least parts of it), the famous German warship Graff Spee, scuttled in Montivideo harbor in 1939. Part of it still sticks out of the shallow water I'm told.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001850277_grafspee04.html
ryarger@rypn.org

Too bad there is nothing left of either HMS Ajax or HMS Achilles (the ships that damaged Graf Spee) to salvage. Achilles lasted in the Indian Navy as INS Mysore until the 70's.

kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net

Pardon the diversion from rail themes, but the mention of this old warship was too much to pass up once the subject of the Graf Spee came up on the RyPN board. There is no salvage effort underway on this ship. In fact, the State of Florida prefers to keep the submerged hulk as is. I thought I knew a lot about the disposition of pre-WW I battleships until a student of mine brought me an article about the USS Massaschusetts. Read the link below.

Underwater archaeology in Florida waters

Don't worry George. There are many of us here with multi-track minds(pun intended). I'm into ships and aircraft as well as trains.

Florida is about to get a much bigger dive site, the former USS Oriskany (CV-34). It's too bad that none of those early BB's survived. USS Illinois (BB-7) was not sold for scrap until 1956. At least USS Olympia (C-6) is still with us from that period.

kevin.r.gillespie@verizon.net

I've noticed something as I've gotten more deeply involved with railroad preservation, there are a lot of us in this field who are either retired or active duty Navy or Coast Guard. Wonder why that is?

Boyd


bowens@rypn.org

> Too bad there is nothing left of either HMS
> Ajax or HMS Achilles (the ships that damaged
> Graf Spee) to salvage. Achilles lasted in
> the Indian Navy as INS Mysore until the
> 70's.

The other British cruiser, HMS Exeter, was lost in the pacific in 1942.

Check out this link if you're interested in warships - there is a LOT of stuff here, including many pictures of ships being scrapped.



www.bobhenneman.info
wtl1959@aol.com

folks,

We have a person from Independence Seaport in Philadelphia visiting the SF Maritime Park where we have the Union Works Collection. He is going through every drawing, sketch, photo and other paper on the cruiser. What a treasure trove.

Also in the UIW collection are two contracts for SF Street Cars. The two groups are for "iron monsters" such as the 130 and 162 which still exist. The 162 was sust bought back by the MUNI amd will be restored for operation on the F Line or the E Line to be opened in May.

ted_miles@nps.gov

> Don't worry George. There are many of us
> here with multi-track minds(pun intended).
> I'm into ships and aircraft as well as
> trains.

> Florida is about to get a much bigger dive
> site, the former USS Oriskany (CV-34). It's
> too bad that none of those early BB's
> survived. USS Illinois (BB-7) was not sold
> for scrap until 1956. At least USS Olympia
> (C-6) is still with us from that period.
I thought the Oriskany had been scrapprd?

> I thought the Oriskany had been scrapprd?

No, she is stored in the Maritime Reserve Fleet here in Beaumont, Texas awaiting her fate.

I see I need to ask about of the tour of the reserve for my steamship database before they are all gone...

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

Surviving World Steamships
james@survivingworldsteam.com

See link below for latest on the Oriskany.

Boyd


USS Oriskany (CVA-34).

bowens@rypn.org

James,

The people at the Suisun Bay Reserve fleet tell me that they expect to go out of business in the next few years.

I assume you Beaumont fleet is the same. If tours are available grab one while you can.

Ted Miles

ted_miles@nps.gov

From my understanding, most all of the reserve fleet is to be disposed of over the next few years, with the exception of ships in a "donation hold status". The link below is to the short list of ships in this status. Note than NONE of the Beaumont fleet is listed.

Boyd


US Navy "Donation Hold Status" Ships
bowens@rypn.org

Just as a comparision, the link below is US Navy ships that have been stricken, and will be scrapped. It's a long list, and it doesn't even include all the old "liberty ships" and merchant type ships the Navy is disposing of.

Boyd


US Navy Stricken Ships
bowens@rypn.org

Just as a side note to my above posts - Not all ships are disposed of by scrapping, some are used as targets and sunk with bombs and missiles. Below is a photo of the first ship I served on being sunk as a target.

Boyd



bowens@rypn.org

Ted,

There are no tours of the Beaumont fleet; and anyone attempting to approach the fleet (which are docked in a backwater off of the Neches River) are escorted away from them. I think it is more to keep people from climbing aboard and hurting or killing themselves on the ships than because of any "state secret"; although ships were pulled from the fleet and reactivated during Desert Storm and perhaps for Gulf War II as well. The ships are unlighted, with unproteced open spaces.

I approached the local maritime office very early in my research on my "Surviving World Steamship" CD-ROM. It was just after 9-11, and while he was somewhat hesitant, he did let me sit down with a ship's registry and a fleet list and write it all down.

They have shown the fleet to a local newspaper reporter (that is what started me on my quest); I am hoping now that I have a CD-ROM out that they will let me photograph as much of the fleet as I can.

It would also be neat if they would let me know when they are towing ships away to meet their fate; since they tow them right past the plant down the Neches River. But that would probably be asking too much.

As you know, my CD-ROM already has pictures from the James River fleet; along with some official US Navy pictures which are considered to be in the public domain.

-James Hefner
Hebrews 10:20a

> James,

> The people at the Suisun Bay Reserve fleet
> tell me that they expect to go out of
> business in the next few years.

> I assume you Beaumont fleet is the same. If
> tours are available grab one while you can.

> Ted Miles


Surviving World Steam Project
james@survivingworldsteam.com