> Pennsy had probably the best maintained rail
> and trackbed undoughtedly sufficient for
> those speeds.Who else had 152 lb
> rail.B&LE and maybe one or two
> others.When they made the 4 track mainline
> those milemarkers are right on.

Recall that 7002's achievement was THREE miles at 127 mph. Stopwatch time elapsed was 85 seconds.

bruceman2@earthlink.net

> There's only one problem with this
> rationale: All the conversion from diesel to
> steam does is shift the type of fossil fuel,
> unless you find a way for the ACE to burn
> household garbage. Frankly, on a global
> millennia-long scale, both coal and oil are
> far too valuable as petrochemical sources
> than they are as fuel, and the most foolish
> thing we can do is burn either at 1000+
> times the rate it can be produced. And no
> matter what we try, steam locomotives will
> still emit greenhouse gasses. (I'm not
> touching the "is global warming
> happening?" debate on this forum,
> thanks.)

> The ONLY practical way at this point to
> eliminate fossil fuels of any sort on the
> rails is via either electrification using
> non-fossil fuel generation (geothermal,
> hydroelectric, trash-incineration, or
> nuclear--solar isn't and probably never will
> do the job), or via some unforeseeable
> technology such as "unobtanium"
> (hydrogen fuel cells, nuclear-reactor
> locomotives, or the like).

Unless unobtainium is discovered very quickly, I think you have to agree that we have to look at what we have. Railroads cannot afford to fund their capital needs as we speak, let alone undertake a electrification of the national network. Neither do they have the political capital to take the necessary funding out of our tax paying pockets. There are not enough hydroelectric sources to convert the system. Unlike oil, our coal supplies are here and not in a distant desert kingdom requiring huge security sums. There is a company now is is studying the burning of trash to do exactly what you suggested. As far as pollution is concerned, some of PortaÂ’s disciples have made remarkable inroads in that regard. While I share your concerns as to global warming, unless we revert to horse drawn carts or invest in cold fusion, this route of technology makes pragmatic sense.



B_Duensing@msn.com

"The LNER A4 'Mallard' still holds that record. U.S. stopwatch records against mileposts (which I believe is what was used to allege a 127.1 mph sprint by a PRR E6s) are usually disregarded because American mileposts are notorious for inaccurate placement."

Actually E2 4-4-2 PL 7002 (assigned to PFW&C) (NOT the present E7s PRR 7002) was timed by block operators using telegraph keys. Mallard's record was a special speed run set up for the purpose of setting a record.

I always wondered if the 1940 overhaul of what is now PRR 7002 was to accompany a record breaking run by PRR S1 6100, which was certainly capable of more than 127.1 MPH.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Sorry, but I just can't resist.

If the Pennsy T-1 was so great, why didn't they keep one ?

Remember what the folks in Roanoke had to say about the Pennsy T-1 they tried.

Now:
You can hear an actual recording of READING T-1 No 2100 going about 120mph !
And she is a friction-bearing engine. Of the 3 used on the "Rambles" only the 2124 is roller-bearing (axles).
Play the "Iron Horse Rambles" record album, specifically the recording at Yardley, PA, and set your record player up to 45!

Now THAT'S fun !

> Sorry, but I just can't resist.

> If the Pennsy T-1 was so great, why didn't
> they keep one ?

> Remember what the folks in Roanoke had to
> say about the Pennsy T-1 they tried.

> Now:
> You can hear an actual recording of READING
> T-1 No 2100 going about 120mph !
> And she is a friction-bearing engine. Of the
> 3 used on the "Rambles" only the
> 2124 is roller-bearing (axles).
> Play the "Iron Horse Rambles"
> record album, specifically the recording at
> Yardley, PA, and set your record player up
> to 45!

> Now THAT'S fun !

Does any of you recall the article in TRAINS a decade-or-so ago written by the fireman of a T-1 hauling a mail train from Van Wert, OH, to Ft. Wayne? He stated that the hogger pulled 'er wide open and left 'er there, pegging the needle at 120 mph, mile after mile. Oh, to have been aboard, eh?

justighe@bright.net

> Does any of you recall the article in TRAINS
> a decade-or-so ago written by the fireman of
> a T-1 hauling a mail train from Van Wert,
> OH, to Ft. Wayne? He stated that the hogger
> pulled 'er wide open and left 'er there,
> pegging the needle at 120 mph, mile after
> mile. Oh, to have been aboard, eh?

I can write about my torrid romance with Britney Spears and Madonna too--does that somehow elevate it from "wishful thinking"? Show me the dynamometer chart or the speed recorder tape and then check the calibration of both, and then get back to me.

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> You can hear an actual recording of READING
> T-1 No 2100 going about 120mph !
> And she is a friction-bearing engine. Of the
> 3 used on the "Rambles" only the
> 2124 is roller-bearing (axles).
> Play the "Iron Horse Rambles"
> record album, specifically the recording at
> Yardley, PA, and set your record player up
> to 45!

> Now THAT'S fun !

But, according to my calculations, if the T1 was going 60 mph in the 33 1/3 recording (and that's a big "if", mind you), the 45 speed would only give you an apparent speed of 81 mph.

Now, if you shift it to 78 rpm, the actual "apparent" speed just happens to be 140.4 mph. Coincidence?


LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

My guess would be the train was doing about 60 going uphill Westward out of West Trenton. They would get up to 75 after going over the top at Fairless Jct and down to Neshaminy Falls, keeping the speed on if running via Jenkintown. [as timed by a Hamilton wrist watch and numbered catenary poles]

TT speed limit for a T-1 was 65 but Rambles had enough official attention it must have been waived.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

> But, according to my calculations, if the T1
> was going 60 mph in the 33 1/3 recording
> (and that's a big "if", mind you),
> the 45 speed would only give you an apparent
> speed of 81 mph.

70 inch drivers: 60 or 70 mph, no big "if".

Get a copy of the Rambles record.
(The original was produced by Semaphore during the Rambles program, around 1963. RCT&HS re-released it in 1985, along with a second record, for our T-1 40th Anniv. celebration. A. Alan Botto (of Semaphore) produced it for us, and still has the original tapes. You might find him at Timonium selling cassettes and cd's. ** ALAN, if you're reading this, it's time for READING cd's!**)
Listen to the Yardley track. The engine is going too fast to count exhaust beats, but maybe someone can time the sound of the 72-foot coaches as their trucks clatter over a rail-joint.

> Now, if you shift it to 78 rpm, the actual
> "apparent" speed just happens to
> be 140.4 mph. Coincidence?

Tough to find a record player that will play at 78.

In fact it's getting tough to find a record player at all.

How many kids reading this even know what we're talking about ?

> TT speed limit for a T-1 was 65 but Rambles
> had enough official attention it must have
> been waived.

Phil,
Do you know the story of the official (or unofficial) Iron Horse Ramble speed record ?

80-something, told to me by George Hart, many years ago.

> Phil,
> Do you know the story of the official (or
> unofficial) Iron Horse Ramble speed record ?

> 80-something, told to me by George Hart,
> many years ago.

Haven't heard it. A friend claims to have clocked a Ramble at 79 (on the New York Branch of course.) One engineer at Gettysburg bragged of running freight at 80+.

The cars had a steady rumble instead of the rocking click + clack you usually had on jointed rail. I rode the PRR NY Div. then; it was jointed rail too, and it felt like that at their usual 80-85 mph in the P70's.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association

Perhaps the 152 lb. rail was used by the PRR out West. On the Main Line around Ardmore, Penna., it was 155 lb. PRR rail (their own section), and was replaced in 1968 by 140 lb. RE (American Railway Engineering Association) rail welded into 1/4 mile strings with an ordinary length bolted between each.
Until about 1948, the Federal Government had no blanket speed limits for railroads until a rule was instituted requiring cab signals (and automatic train stop?) over 79 m.p.h. (Just before then, the AT&SF did some speed tests with steam locomotives that lacked cab signals.) So, in the early days, it was up to each railroad to make and enforce or ignore its own rules!

TyburnRR@cs.com

> Until about 1948, the Federal Government had
> no blanket speed limits for railroads until
> a rule was instituted requiring cab signals
> (and automatic train stop?) over 79 m.p.h.
> (Just before then, the AT&SF did some
> speed tests with steam locomotives that
> lacked cab signals.) So, in the early days,
> it was up to each railroad to make and
> enforce or ignore its own rules!

Two recollections:

1) The late Rosemary Entringer, of Trains magazine, was treated to a cab ride aboard 2100 on one of the early Iron Horse Rambles. She reportedly noticed there was no speedometer in 2100's cab, and asked the engineer how the crew ran the engine without one. She reported that the engineer's reply was "Aw, we just run the hell out of 'em..."

2) Aboard the Strasburg RR, just after the conductor would announce that the ladies on board should lift their feet to reduce the load on SRR's only bridge, would come the announcement that, "for those of you wondering how fast we are going, we are now traveling at a speed of less than ONE HUNDRED MILES AN HOUR..."


bruceman2@earthlink.net

> Phil,
> Do you know the story of the official (or
> unofficial) Iron Horse Ramble speed record ?

> 80-something, told to me by George Hart,
> many years ago.

82 MILES PER HOUR! I was fortunate enough to be on board. George mentioned to me that he thought that was the record for a Reading T-1.

steamerdon@comcast.net

As I recall, in Ramble days, 2100 acquired a speedometer that was driven from a friction wheel on one of the drivers.

Electric City Trolley Museum Association