Passing this along for what it's worth. I have not personally seen the carbody in question. I received the following email:

"I just got a phone call today from the manager of the The Old Spaghetti Factory in downtown San Diego. They have a vintage streetcar body in their restaurant that they are seeking to sell. The remodel that the restaurant is about to undergo does not allow room for the streetcar.

The manager said that the streetcar was built in 1917 in St. Louis for the City of Bellingham, Washington, I believe. It's not something that we can use because our system in San Diego is not yet up and running.

If you could help me spread the word that this streetcar body is for sale, that would be great.

The phone number for The Old Spaghetti Factory is (619) 233-4323. Whoever might be interested in purchasing the streetcar should call them directly."

Sincerely,
Richard Kurylo
Assistant Director
North Park Main Street
San Diego

Orange Empire Railway Museum
jsmatlak@earthlink.net

Someone here in Washington should make a contact with these folks. Wouldn't this be fun on the new trolley line in downtown Tacoma, or even on the Seattle waterfront!

Most of the cars used in that restaurant chain were birney safety cars.

They were small lightly built street cars built about 1918- 1925. They are fairly easy to restore, but there is a catch. The Birney trucks are really scarce.

At the Western Railway Museum, we have three Birney bodies looking for trucks.

Of course a Heritage Line may well put anything with four wheels under them. I hope the car finds a home where people can see an example of how the street car industry attempted to standardize a car for use in many cities.

ted_miles@nps.gov

Ted:

I didn't know that. It sort of makes one want to ask: If the car bodies are so plentiful, would it be worth manufacturing new trucks to orignal specs (perhaps with improved mechanicals). I'm thinking of an operation like Edwards Rail Car.

Pie in the sky?

Scott

There have been two 88-LSS reproduction Birney trucks built in the past 15 years, one for McKinney Avenue Transit Authority in Dallas and one for Tampa and Ybor City Street Railway in Florida. The primary difference between an 88-LSS and a Brill 78M or 79E(?) is the journal box is fabricated instead of cast.

I have been in discussion with the folks at Tucson's Old Pueblo Trolley and the Minnesota Transportation Museum about sharing the cost of patterns for an authentic journal box. Our organization (North Texas Historic Transportation, Inc. dba/Fort Worth Streetcar) is not ready to start the project yet as we are trying to build a carbarn, but I am hoping to start on this within a year.

Feel free to drop me an email on this if you are interested in joining the project. I would like to get all interested parties together at Ogden at this year's ARM Convention to iron out the details on doing this.

> Ted:

> I didn't know that. It sort of makes one
> want to ask: If the car bodies are so
> plentiful, would it be worth manufacturing
> new trucks to orignal specs (perhaps with
> improved mechanicals). I'm thinking of an
> operation like Edwards Rail Car.

> Pie in the sky?

> Scott


tnold@northtexastransport.org

Birney Chicken Coop Owners:

I hearily endorse Andy's call for serious discussion regarding reproducing the Brill 79E truck (or whatever) so those chicken coops can someday roll. Next ARM meeting is as good a place as any to get this bell ringing. The other major items that need to be reproduced are the K-63 controllers and the M-28 brake valves. Making replicas of these items was also discussed at the last ARM meeting. See also related discussion over in the Yahoo streetcar preservation group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Tram-Trol ... tionForum/

I believe that if several streetcar museums band together to make these parts that perhaps 10-15 ST Birney car bodies can be made operational. There are about 60 ST Birneys scattered about right now but only about 5 could be considered operational by my informal estimate.

Of course the question always arises when one starts to work on a chicken coop: how far do you go to make the car appear as it did during a given period. Or do you simply put what you have on the shelf into the carbody so it runs? I for one endorse the opionin of many in the "industry" that there's a big difference between making a chicken coop operational and restoring the car to its original appearance and even operation. We must make a serious effort to have the key components made that match the originals.

I think that doing what Andy suggests would be a good step in the right direction. Let's have some serious discussion in Ogden this September.

Thanks!

Jim Vaitkunas
General Superintendent
Como-Harriet Streetcar Line
Minnesota Transportation Museum

Minnesota Transportation Museum
jvaitkunas@msn.com

> There are about 60 ST > Birneys scattered
> about right now but only about 5 could be
> considered operational by my informal
> estimate.

Your estimate is only considering one continent. Bendigo, Adelaide and Melbourne all have fully restored ST Birney cars in their museum fleets.


Bendigo Tramways Aust
chairman@pbr.org.au

Jim,

Wow! That is the kind of responce that I like to see to a post about a street car.

as you know we run a Sacramento Northern Birney at the Western Railway Museum on a regular basis.

It is just as noisy and bounce as the old timers said that they are.

They hasve been working on a Pacific Electric Birney at the Orange Empire Museum recently.

you might want to contact John Smatlak to see what his thoughts are.

Ted Miles



ted_miles@nps.gov

> Your estimate is only considering one
> continent. Bendigo, Adelaide and Melbourne
> all have fully restored ST Birney cars in
> their museum fleets.

Hello Mr. Breydon:

Of course, I was only referring to those on the North America continent. Sorry for the oversight. And my count of operational Birneys is totally unscientific (in the military we called it an instant, in-depth Staff Study) as I suspect there lurks in several carbarns cars which, with only minor work, could be made operational, e.g., Connecticut Company Birneys at Warehouse Point and Branford.

Bendigo probably has more fully operational ST Birneys than all the heritage railways and trolley museums in NA combined. One of these days I will come and visit Bendigo just to marvel in this fine operation.

Thanks!

Jim Vaitkunas
Como-Harriet Streetcar Line
Minnesota Transportation Museum


Minnesota Transportation Museum