Kurt: Would you please post the measurement of the diameter of a one of the PRR round number plates? I have the measurements for the Keystone, but would like to make a copy of a freight engine plate. Would you include the width of the yellow ring surrounding the rim? Your help is much appreciated! Thanks.

Aurora7@Juno.com

Richard,
Unless somebody beats me to it on the board, I'll gladly post the measurements that you requested early next week when I can access the PRR locos in the collection.
K.R. Bell

> Kurt: Would you please post the measurement
> of the diameter of a one of the PRR round
> number plates? I have the measurements for
> the Keystone, but would like to make a copy
> of a freight engine plate. Would you include
> the width of the yellow ring surrounding the
> rim? Your help is much appreciated! Thanks.

Kurt:
Thanks a bunch! That's great! I'm looking forward to getting the data.



Aurora7@Juno.com

> Richard,
> Unless somebody beats me to it on the board,
> I'll gladly post the measurements that you
> requested early next week when I can access
> the PRR locos in the collection.
> K.R. Bell

Hey Kurt, nothing like living in the bowels of the archives no? Don't know how yours is, but I jokingly point out that we are a bit like mushrooms here if you get my drift. Sometimes I think people forget that in order to restore that park engine or rotting coach, depot, or other railroad related piece of equipment or structure, (or replicate a numberplate) it can help a great deal to have an archives to answer those nagging questions. Archives and collections aren't sexy, and in terms of dollars through the door they don't attract as well as displays, but they are just as vital to the historical record, and in my book anyway, diserve the same respect is that display loco. Kudos to you and yours guys for making yours available as readily as you do! It ain't easy I know!

TJ

Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

Richard,

Here's the measurements I promised from the round number plate of PRR Il No. 4584, in the RRMPA collection:

17" top of plate to the bottom
1" Width outer rim "strip" along edge of plate

Hope this helps.

K.R. Bell
RR Museum of PA

> Kurt: Would you please post the measurement
> of the diameter of a one of the PRR round
> number plates? I have the measurements for
> the Keystone, but would like to make a copy
> of a freight engine plate. Would you include
> the width of the yellow ring surrounding the
> rim? Your help is much appreciated! Thanks.

Kurt, thank you for the measurements and thank you again for being so prompt about posting them. You don't by chance, have the rest of that I1sa tucked away in the vaults as well???

RDG


Aurora7@Juno.com

I really wish we did. Who knows...maybe someday a certain surviving I1 just might migrate south?! Hey, stranger things have happened! ;-)

> Kurt, thank you for the measurements and
> thank you again for being so prompt about
> posting them. You don't by chance, have the
> rest of that I1sa tucked away in the vaults
> as well???

> RDG

Hi, T.J., Thanks for the positive words about railway museum archiving. Archives are certainly at times out-of-sight, out-of-mind but essential for documentation and "getting it right". There's nothing like a primary source; it seldom lies. Our collection has come a very long way. The first Director was a pack rat and literally collected everything and anything but had a good sense of expertise and a knack for saving very important older papers, photos and negs available thirty year ago and now very scarce today (I'm talking material produced from the 1870s-1920s era). Much of it was unprocessed and packed into closets, in eleven filing cabinets, placed in boxes hidden above ceiling tiles, and in one of the museum's wooden boxcars kept inside the Rolling Stock Hall (nicknamed a "Hollinger box on wheels" by the staff). Unfortunately a good portion of the original order of the early individual collections were broken up in 1979-1981 when Thomas T. Taber III interfiled everything by railroad name, handy for researchers but the kiss of death for archivists and historians! After the first Director was retired in 1983, the state archives paid a visit late that year, trucked two trailer loads out of the building to Harrisburg, where they processed a good deal of the material at that time, and brought most it back down to Strasburg around 1985. It has come a long way since then, with a 25-year cataloguing backlog now being addressed, new finding aids being compiled, storage conditions and materials constantly being upgraded and the greatest accessibility to materials heretofore unprecedented for researcher use. In 2000 we added a new high-density Space Saver shelving system in the new archives annex in the basement (the old wood shop), implemented a new Library of Congress cataloguing software system (InMagic) which has seen 8,000 rare books and serials catalogued, a new Library Archives Data Retreival System which searches for individual items across 3,000 cubic feet of collections, hundreds of new acid-free boxes, thousands of file folders and acid-free negative envelopes, etc. We are preparing for an AAM Accreditation visit in 2006 and are trying to get everything in tip-top shape. At the same time, I answer about 500 research queries per year via snail mail, fax, phone, and email, handle research appointments and front desk "walk-in" questions on a daily basis, process/inventory/catalogue new donations, help plan, script and fabricate new exhibitions, write journal articles, wheew, I'm tired just thinking about it. We suffer from the typical museum conumdrum with few staff and minimal resources and high demands on services, but do the best we can with the resources available. It is invigorating albeit exhausting and personally rewarding work but I am confident we will meet the goal. Stay tuned.

K.R. Bell
Railroad Museum of PA

> Hey Kurt, nothing like living in the bowels
> of the archives no? Don't know how yours is,
> but I jokingly point out that we are a bit
> like mushrooms here if you get my drift.
> Sometimes I think people forget that in
> order to restore that park engine or rotting
> coach, depot, or other railroad related
> piece of equipment or structure, (or
> replicate a numberplate) it can help a great
> deal to have an archives to answer those
> nagging questions. Archives and collections
> aren't sexy, and in terms of dollars through
> the door they don't attract as well as
> displays, but they are just as vital to the
> historical record, and in my book anyway,
> diserve the same respect is that display
> loco. Kudos to you and yours guys for making
> yours available as readily as you do! It
> ain't easy I know!

> TJ

> Much of it was unprocessed
> and packed into closets, in eleven filing
> cabinets, placed in boxes hidden above
> ceiling tiles, and in one of the museum's
> wooden boxcars kept inside the Rolling Stock
> Hall (nicknamed a "Hollinger box on
> wheels" by the staff).

Thats great. Even my director got a kick out of that one. I think all of us have to deal with similar situations from predecessors who meant well but just didn't quite get things together well.

> We are preparing for an AAM Accreditation visit > in 2006 and are trying to get everything in
> tip-top shape. At the same time, I answer
> about 500 research queries per year via
> snail mail, fax, phone, and email, handle
> research appointments and front desk
> "walk-in" questions on a daily
> basis, process/inventory/catalogue new
> donations, help plan, script and fabricate
> new exhibitions, write journal articles,
> wheew, I'm tired just thinking about it. We
> suffer from the typical museum conumdrum
> with few staff and minimal resources and
> high demands on services, but do the best we
> can with the resources available. It is
> invigorating albeit exhausting and
> personally rewarding work but I am confident
> we will meet the goal. Stay tuned.

To quote Bill Clinton " I feel...your pain..."
Not having the time to do it all can be really overwhelming. We are in the process of digitizing our photo collections, as well as photo documenting everything to our new PastPerfect collection software (miles above the old SNAP we had). I find it interesting that your numbers resemble mine; i've actually gotten in the habit of recording phone calls and emails in access by type. I don't know about you, but the computer age has tripled the number of requests we've had in three years. Unbelievable.

TJ


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

I don't know about you, but the computer age
> has tripled the number of requests we've had
> in three years. Unbelievable.

Oh, I share your pain brother!! Every morning I am typically greeted by 10-20 research email queries in my inbox at work--ugh! I usually ask patrons to submit a letter via U.S. mail; that helps manage the email load a bit and seperate the serious requests from the casual ones. Otherwise questions I can answer off the top of my head (i.e. how many S-1's did the PRR own?) get answered immediately right then and there. We could easily employ one person full-time to do nothing else but answer queries all day long, 37.5 hours per week. Unfortunately our resources do not permit such a position at this time. It is an overwelming task at times but we manage to keep things moving along.

K.R. Bell

We could easily employ one person
> full-time to do nothing else but answer
> queries all day long, 37.5 hours per week.
> Unfortunately our resources do not permit
> such a position at this time. It is an
> overwelming task at times but we manage to
> keep things moving along.

You know, of course, that this is why places like the B&O Museum library assess such "outrageous" fees for research. I'm left to wonder who the heck even uses them with those fees. (Oh, yes... me, on more than one occasion......)

I do wonder if the same computer age that makes ease of inquiry such a burden could also be used to levy more "reasonable" fees. Imagine if, for example, I asked for a digitized 3/4 photo of PRR I1 4472, with the understanding that you would dock my PayPal account $10.50 upon transmission of the digital file back to my e-mail address. On the one hand, such fees could pay for your query-answering intern pretty quickly; on the other hand, such fees would probably tend to arrest the number of queries quite sharply if notice of the fees were posted up front!

LNER4472-NOSPAM-@bcpl.net

> I don't know about you, but the computer age

> Oh, I share your pain brother!! Every
> morning I am typically greeted by 10-20
> research email queries in my inbox at
> work--ugh! I usually ask patrons to submit a
> letter via U.S. mail; that helps manage the
> email load a bit and seperate the serious
> requests from the casual ones. Otherwise
> questions I can answer off the top of my
> head (i.e. how many S-1's did the PRR own?)
> get answered immediately right then and
> there. We could easily employ one person
> full-time to do nothing else but answer
> queries all day long, 37.5 hours per week.
> Unfortunately our resources do not permit
> such a position at this time. It is an
> overwelming task at times but we manage to
> keep things moving along.

> K.R. Bell

Same here -- its usually first come first served, but inevitably I end up answering the quickest ones (i.e. "Do you know during what time frame the Kern's Brewery operated in Port Huron") but to help, we DID take on a part-time Assistant Curator to help with just our Underground Railroad/ Geneaology inquiries and entering in new collections/ updating of object locations. I'm hoping we might be able to get an intern this summer to boost the speed-factor in the task of digital documentation (for Past-Perfect) of our better than 15,000 items that need photo updating.

I love your ideas about written requests --- might borrow if its o.k. by you. By the way, how's your space issue? Ours is starting to get a wee-bit cramped, to the point we are moving the archives/ curatorial offices out of the collections area to get more space.

TJG


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org

As a state-run museum, we are a public archives and therefore cannot charge fees to do research. There's a big difference in what public and private archives can and cannot do.

Another problem with digitization of images is that unless the photo(s) scanned is incrypted the institution loses control of the image, allowing others to copy it and circulate it without the owning institution ever receiving any renumeration. That's why I'm a bit leery about digitizing our photo collection and putting it out over the web, as superb as it is. I'm more inclined to place our negative catalogues into digital form and selling them via credit card access through the museum web site (an idea). Another pet peeve of mine is that some rail institutions jump on the digitialization bandwagon too quickly without having fully catalogued or accounted for all of their photos and negs. You must know what you've got before you can go to the next level.

Just a few "practical" concerns from a railway museum archivist who labors in the trenches everyday.> We could easily employ one person

> You know, of course, that this is why places
> like the B&O Museum library assess such
> "outrageous" fees for research.
> I'm left to wonder who the heck even uses
> them with those fees. (Oh, yes... me, on
> more than one occasion......)

> I do wonder if the same computer age that
> makes ease of inquiry such a burden could
> also be used to levy more
> "reasonable" fees. Imagine if, for
> example, I asked for a digitized 3/4 photo
> of PRR I1 4472, with the understanding that
> you would dock my PayPal account $10.50 upon
> transmission of the digital file back to my
> e-mail address. On the one hand, such fees
> could pay for your query-answering intern
> pretty quickly; on the other hand, such fees
> would probably tend to arrest the number of
> queries quite sharply if notice of the fees
> were posted up front!

T.J.: We are very cramped and trying to make the best of things. Our facilities consist of a cramped second floor archives and rare book room, a reading room and my office overlooking the Strasburg Rail Road's 1883 depot (yes, I get the envious position of having a catbird seat, overlooking the Strasburg RR's steamer locos depart and arrive all day long!), and a cramped basement archives annex. Our cinder block building was very poorly designed in the early 1970s and never took into account the need for future growth; we outgrew our facilities TEN years ago, if that gives you some idea of our space problem! There's no guarantee of additional facilities anytime in the near future since state funding is limited. To help manage the space problem, we've developed a collecting plan that guides everything we do and don't take in, eliminating the possibility of an errant curator ever over-collecting everything and anything (our present Curator and I think along the same lines--less is more, and we are very picky about what we now accept as opposed to what was standard practice in the past). It also "backs us up" if we ever have to deal with a difficult potential donor who insists we must take their artifact that falls outside our collecting parameters. We're also starting to deaccession irrelevant and duplicate materials, also freeing up space little by little. With less money available to care for artifacts, we have had to make some difficult decisions for the good of the institution that seem to be working out well over the long haul.

K.R. Bell

> Same here -- its usually first come first
> served, but inevitably I end up answering
> the quickest ones (i.e. "Do you know
> during what time frame the Kern's Brewery
> operated in Port Huron") but to help,
> we DID take on a part-time Assistant Curator
> to help with just our Underground Railroad/
> Geneaology inquiries and entering in new
> collections/ updating of object locations.
> I'm hoping we might be able to get an intern
> this summer to boost the speed-factor in the
> task of digital documentation (for
> Past-Perfect) of our better than 15,000
> items that need photo updating.

> I love your ideas about written requests ---
> might borrow if its o.k. by you. By the way,
> how's your space issue? Ours is starting to
> get a wee-bit cramped, to the point we are
> moving the archives/ curatorial offices out
> of the collections area to get more space.

> TJG

> As a state-run museum, we are a public
> archives and therefore cannot charge fees to
> do research. There's a big difference in
> what public and private archives can and
> cannot do.

> Another problem with digitization of images
> is that unless the photo(s) scanned is
> incrypted the institution loses control of
> the image, allowing others to copy it and
> circulate it without the owning institution
> ever receiving any renumeration. That's why
> I'm a bit leery about digitizing our photo
> collection and putting it out over the web,
> as superb as it is. I'm more inclined to
> place our negative catalogues into digital
> form and selling them via credit card access
> through the museum web site (an idea).
> Another pet peeve of mine is that some rail
> institutions jump on the digitialization
> bandwagon too quickly without having fully
> catalogued or accounted for all of their
> photos and negs. You must know what you've
> got before you can go to the next level.

> Just a few "practical" concerns
> from a railway museum archivist who labors
> in the trenches everyday.

I have to agree with K.R. here. In our case, its less digitatization of our photo collection for the researchers benefit, but for our own. Our collections are our livelihood, and as yet I have not seen a full proof way to make sure that your collections name follows a picture from your collection. For us its not just the photo collection --- a picture of every item in our collection, be it a fur coat or a locomotive bell, is IMPERATIVE to speaking to the most important issue raised by K.R. above, which is to fully account for what you have.

The reality is, at least in our case, that the majority of our institution's collections started
coming in with a "devil may care" attitude. The sole purpose was to build a collection, with VERY little though to what went into it. This is why (and yes, I'm harping) a MISSION STATEMENT is absolutely paramount above EVERYTHING. Most of us in the Curatorial/ Archival fields are forced to pick up the pieces then, of what is often at best an unorganized, and worse a choatic, system of cataloging.

If you don't lay out and decide what the focus of your collection should be, what story your trying to tell, than all you are is a glorfied attic or antique shop, or worse JUNK yard. I have turned down many possible donations because of things like a.) condition of artificact b.) no relavance to the mission statement c.) we have more than one item. C. can only be truly known if you can QUICKLY look at your collection and say "Why yes, we do have an example of a 1924 Chicroy can made by that Port Huron firm." The picture with that tells you if your current example is in better or worse condition than one that is coming in for possible donation. I have also deaccessioned items that have no place in a collection. Do 20 Burlington Timetables make sense in a facility that is dedicated to preserving the history of greater St. Clair County, Michigan? No. 20 GTW or PM timetables? You bet. They are better served going to an institution that's mission statement reflects that Burlington Heritage, in this case, the Heartland Group.

TJG


Port Huron Museum
tjgaffney@phmuseum.org