Altamont Press Newsline for Feb 5 has a photo of "Western Pacific 804A", which is apparently on display at Disney's California Adventure Park, along with California Zephyr diner Silver Platter and dome-observation car Silver Crescent. The initial caption said these were all replicas, but as so much real equipment is around, that seems unlikely. Who can tell us more and provide more photos? This sounds like an interesting story.

ryarger1@nycap.rr.com

I was there Saturday and the Locomotive is definitely a replica. I believe the nose may even be made of polymer or fiberglass. The cars, a diner and observation dome, may have some actual accessories, but they look a tad shorter than the real thing. Both cars bear the eatery's name. In keeping with the CZ motif it' "Silver Platter". Lots of paper Zephyr stuff is framed on the walls. Les Casten, a local railcar dealer is rumored to have had some rough dealings with Disney on the project. He supplied some components. Sorry no pictures.

wyld@oct-net.com

I hope someone can provide more photos. It would be interesting to learn what they spent on making fakes when so much of the real thing is available and in need of restoration.

I was there Saturday and the Locomotive is
> definitely a replica. I believe the nose may
> even be made of polymer or fiberglass. The
> cars, a diner and observation dome, may have
> some actual accessories, but they look a tad
> shorter than the real thing. Both cars bear
> the eatery's name. In keeping with the CZ
> motif it' "Silver Platter". Lots
> of paper Zephyr stuff is framed on the
> walls. Les Casten, a local railcar dealer is
> rumored to have had some rough dealings with
> Disney on the project. He supplied some
> components. Sorry no pictures.


ryarger1@nycap.rr.com

The upside of using "fakes" from a Disney POV may well be that the company doesn't have to hlisten to all the complaints from railfoamers because they got some small (or large) detail wrong, or "destroyed a piece of history just to make a buck"
just a thought...

> The upside of using "fakes" from a
> Disney POV may well be that the company
> doesn't have to hlisten to all the
> complaints from railfoamers because they got
> some small (or large) detail wrong, or
> "destroyed a piece of history just to
> make a buck"
> just a thought...

The problem is, they did destroy at least one piece of history to make this display. The nose came from an actual F unit in Illinois. Originally we thought it came from UP E-8 #928, but what's left of #928 is still "intact" in Cheyenne. I don't know the identity of the F unit, and I hope they didn't chop up an actual CZ car to make this thing.


kevingillespie@usa.net

Two thoughts:
If the raw material came from Les Kasten as alleged, they would have come off of "expendable" equipment, not anything of great scarcity or value. I can probably rattle off a dozen F or E units that could easily be sacrificed (in the big picture, that is, the matter of it being the last such unit from that RR notwithstanding) for the kind of money that Disney could be charged for the replica. If you haven't been able to sell the loco complete for $60,000, what's selling the nose for $100,000?
Second, I strongly suspect from what I know and have learned about Disney and other theme parks (hold your conspiracy theories, gang, I'm just being real) that Disney probably had other reasons for going with a customized replica. Perhaps some designers told them that 56.2 feet was the optimum length for customer satisfaction. Maybe they plan Hollywood-style special effects you couldn't apply with a real loco.

Disney is all about fantasy (or fraud, depending on your viewpoint), and I'd rather they spent mega-dollars on a fantasy rather than mutilate a real artifact to their uses, like they arguably did with the Disneyland locos in California originally.

LNER4472@gateway.net

This topic's been discussed extensively on the "Trainorders" Western Discussion Board (www.trainorders.com- no endorsement implied) and a picture of the cab in yellow primer being transported to Disneyland was posted. It appeared to be cut off a foot or so behind the cab door. Visitors to the attraction also stated that the loco replica had a genuine EMD flexicoil truck with "Dofasco" stamped in it indicating possible Canadian origins. It's also been generally concluded that the CZ cars attached were replicas fabricated from scratch given the configuration of the entry doors and the interior layouts. The Trainorders discussion board also has several other photos of the completed attraction that could be found by doing a search of the discussion threads.

davew833@yahoo.com

This topic's been discussed extensively on the "Trainorders" Western Discussion Board (www.trainorders.com- no endorsement implied) and a picture of the cab in yellow primer
being transported to Disneyland was posted. It appeared to be cut off a foot or so behind the cab door. Visitors to the attraction also stated that the loco replica had a genuine EMD flexicoil truck with "Dofasco" stamped in it indicating possible Canadian origins. It's also been generally concluded that the CZ cars attached were replicas fabricated from scratch given the configuration of the entry doors and the interior layouts. The Trainorders discussion board also has several other photos of the completed attraction that could be found by doing a search of the discussion threads.

davew833@yahoo.com

BTW, seems like the bigger issue here is being overlooked - Say what you will about Eisner Enterprises, but their investment, which is always quality and never cheap, in building a replica of the CZ stuff will do a lot more to get more people interested in the originals and in trains than the rusty lines of cars on display awaiting preservation only visited by a few thousand a year in the average RR museum.

Their recycling parts from scrapped stuff will help recycle people into railfans too.

Dave

lathro19@idt.net

I had never visited a Disney Park until three years ago, when we went to Orlando. While everything there is fake, I was amazed at the attention to detail and maintenance. The motto seems to be that if it takes 10,000 people to operate and maintain the place properly, when they could squeak by with 2000 by cutting corners, then 10,000 it is. In the case of the CZ, however, it just seems too bad that some of that investment couldn't have been spent on restoring real equipment that sorely needed it. Probably would have cost less too.

BTW, seems like the bigger issue here is
> being overlooked - Say what you will about
> Eisner Enterprises, but their investment,
> which is always quality and never cheap, in
> building a replica of the CZ stuff will do a
> lot more to get more people interested in
> the originals and in trains than the rusty
> lines of cars on display awaiting
> preservation only visited by a few thousand
> a year in the average RR museum.

> Their recycling parts from scrapped stuff
> will help recycle people into railfans too.

> Dave


ryarger1@nycap.rr.com